Running a private practice from Mexico might sound like a dream, but what is it really like to live and work abroad as a therapist? From navigating residency requirements to managing client sessions across different time zones, making the move to another country comes with plenty of challenges—but also incredible rewards.
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Emma Kobil, a therapist who took her practice online and made the leap to living in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. She shares her journey from working tough agency jobs to building a thriving private practice, paying off student loans, and ultimately moving abroad. We dive into the realities of life as a traveling therapist, how she manages her workload, and why she decided to scale back from coaching to refocus on therapy. If you’ve ever dreamed of running a private practice from Mexico, this episode is packed with insights on what it really takes to make it happen.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Emma:
https://emmakobilcoaching.com/
https://mindfulcounselingdenver.com/
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Membership: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/travelingtherapistmembership
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
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Sponsored by Alma: Managing a private practice can be challenging. There are obstacles at every turn — from navigating the credentialing process, to managing finances, to finding new clients. That’s where Alma can help. Alma is on a mission to simplify access to mental health care by focusing first and foremost on supporting clinicians. https://helloalma.com/kym
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Transcript:
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. Excited today, we have a fellow traveling therapist here with us, and she's also multi-passionate, and has dabbled in and out of coaching and all kinds of stuff. So Emma, I would love if you would just start out and tell us, like, how'd you go from being just like your traditional therapist to a traveling therapist? I love hearing about people's journey and how you got to where you are.
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here today, Kim. And I was just saying before this, like, I've been listening to your podcast for years, and honestly, it inspired me a lot in the beginning when I first started listening.
I remember hearing some episodes about people who lived abroad or who were just taking a practice on the road, and it got me so excited. I've always loved to travel. I studied abroad in college.
I went to, like, an inexpensive school partially so I could study abroad in London and take a URL pass and go all over Europe. And it was really some of the best years of my life doing that. So every real opportunity I've had to travel, I just take it.
It's really a part of what makes life fun and meaningful and exciting to me. I guess I was a traditional therapist in that I started out, and I was a philosopher in grad school. I went to a philosophy grad school program.
I was in, like, a PhD program, but decided I really wanted to help people. And so I went to school for counseling psychology. I, of course, worked in really tough agency jobs.
I worked at an eating disorder clinic in Denver. I worked in a kind of, like, day treatment residential, a couple programs like that. I worked with kids who had sexually acted out.
I was a supervisor. I had some really tough jobs, and just at one point was, like, I can't take this. I quit.
I had to open my practice, and I saw clients in person in a really, I had a really cute office in Denver for a while, and it was great. And I took insurance, and it was fine and still mired in student loan debt, of course. And so traveling wasn't really that big a part of my life at that point.
But then the pandemic obviously happened, and I went all online. And obviously, student loans were paused. There was this huge need for therapy.
I was able to pay off essentially all my student loans. I saved up like crazy. And I also went off insurance panels during that time and had a really great successful experience with that.
During the pandemic, my partner and I traveled for a month to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. And I was obsessed with Spanish and learning Spanish, and we just absolutely fell in love with it, or I did mostly when we were here. He loves it too, but I was the one who was crying when we had to leave.
And oh, my God, I'm obsessed with it here. And so we, I told him, like, it is my dream to spend most of my time or to live in a place like that. And he said, if it's your dream, like, we'll make it happen.
And he works remotely as well. So he was able to do it. And so we sold all our stuff.
We were renting at the time. Everyone in my lives kind of thought we were a little crazy. But we just sort of packed it all up and moved to Puerto Vallarta.
And we've been here now for about two and a half years. But we travel all around Mexico and other places. We're going to Europe and London and Spain this spring and summer and go into different South American countries as well.
And so I just feel so lucky and happy that we did it. Oh, my gosh. So you had built the private practice and then COVID hit and then you were like online.
So you just took your clients with you and went down to Mexico. Oh, my gosh, that is so cool. Puerto Vallarta, I'm trying to think, is that on the Gulf side or the ocean side? It's on the Pacific side.
So it's on the West Coast side, which is great because we get these sunsets that are just magical. We live in a bay. And so right now there are tons of whales here, which is just incredible.
Like I see them just on my walks all the time, like going in and out of the water. There's also mountains and a river and forest. So right up against the ocean and it's tropical and it's pretty much my dream place.
Oh, my gosh. And how warm is it right now? Everyone's going to hate me going through the polar vortex. So right now it's like chilly for Puerto Vallarta, but it's like seven.
Let's see what it is. Oh, it's 83 right now. OK, it's not actually.
But it has been like a little bit like you could wear long sleeves sometimes at night, but it's so hot in the summer. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
We're in Florida. People are going to hate me, too. But it's like 55 here and I'm freezing.
Like I've got I'm sipping a hot tea. I've got a blanket on my lap. Yeah, I'm a warm weather kind of girl.
So I don't know. Oh, my gosh. Sunshine and beaches for me.
That sounds magical. So when you're traveling to the other places, is it like you're taking a vacation or do you like take your practice and just see your clients and do all of that from wherever you are still? Like, how do you manage all that? The way we have done it is I typically take that time as a vacation usually because we have an apartment here in Puerto Vallarta that is just lovely and it's very conducive to being able to like work and stuff like that. So typically when we go, I only see clients like three days a week, which is really nice as well.
So we'll take like a long weekend and go somewhere close by or take a week and go to, you know, Medellin or something like that. So I've typically done it where I actually get to take the time off, although we spend about three or four months in the summer in the U.S. So then I obviously like work and see my clients and stuff like that when we're back there. Yeah, that's great.
That's my goal to actually take some time off sometime before we hit record. I was telling Emma, you know, I'm getting ready to launch the portable practice method and it's like, oh my gosh, just trying to keep up with so many income streams and clients. And it's just it can be really exhausting sometimes.
So I'm glad to hear that you have built in actual vacations. Yeah, I'm excited. When I was doing coaching, I wasn't really doing that.
It was a lot harder. So I totally empathize with you. Yeah, you're a good person for me to talk to.
I need to take some cues from you. You know, a lot of times on this podcast, we talk about therapists sort of. It seems like the next evolution for a lot of therapists is how can I move up into other income streams? And even in the portable practice method, I've got like an entire module on that.
Like, let's build some other income stream so you can have a little more freedom and see less clients and all of that. But there is a reality to that, right? It's not all passive for sure. There's a lot of work behind it.
I just I don't know if you feel like talking about that, but it might be interesting for others because you kind of went that way. But before we hit record, we were saying you kind of like pulled back from a little bit and got back into the client work. I don't know if you want to talk about that.
I think that's really interesting. Absolutely. I would say I've always been kind of a like ambitious person where I'm always like kind of thinking about like, what's the next cool thing I could learn or try on or explore? So I think it was like 2022 or 2023.
And I was here in Mexico. And I just really felt like, okay, my life's really good. I have this thriving practice that is bringing in good income.
I live in the most beautiful place. I love my community, like what's something fun I want to like try to do. And so I really delved into the world of coaching.
And I tried like a few different kind of things and niches. And what I eventually realized was like, I love private practice. I love talking about it.
I loved building it. It's the coolest job. I mean, I think it's like honestly the best job in the world.
And so I was like, I'd love to help people build their practices so they could have kind of like this life and so they can help other people and also not be burned out with seeing a ton of clients. And so I moved into that world of coaching and I went hard at it. And I would say was working sometimes at that like 50 or 60 hours a week on top of like my private practice.
And so what I was recognizing and I really enjoyed it and I had a successful coaching program was I loved the actual coaching. I still have coaching clients and I absolutely love them. But I think what I recognized about it was I was spending so much time needing to market myself and be on social media and kind of like be a brand and then engaging and messaging and cold DMing and consult calls and like all of these things that I felt like I just had taken away the things in my life that I actually really loved that I created for myself.
I wasn't really focusing on my own fun and freedom and travel and health and all of that stuff that I had really done this in order to do. And I just kept kind of being a little jealous of my clients in a way. Not really, but like kind of like, oh, they're just like building their practices and look at this awesome, look at what they're doing.
Like that sounds so nice and so fun to just have that be my life again. And I was like, okay, what am I doing? Like, why am I not doing that? So I kind of decided to close the doors on having more people in the program itself, you know, and again, I still see my clients and I would still see individual clients and stuff like that. But I just realized that my life was more important to me than doing this new project, I guess.
So yeah, it's actually something some of my current coaching clients have asked me a lot about and have even some of them have had like similar experiences with dabbling into coaching. And of course, every person is different. But the fact is that with private practice, you can make like amazing money for very low overhead, and not a lot of work.
And I think a lot of people don't consider that when they're thinking about that week, because like, you can raise your rate, you can make your marketing better and attract different kinds of clients or whatever, you can mix up what you're doing, if you get bored in some way, and you can see less clients. And there's, I mean, marketing and practice is also pretty simple, ultimately, and marketing and coaching business is pretty complex. So what I realized is just that my life and the work life balance that afforded me and also that I just love seeing clients.
I love the fulfillment. It's re-energized me back into that world of like seeing clients and just, you know, loving being a therapist, really. Yeah, I feel like you're putting my path today for a reason.
I mean, like Wednesdays are like my work day, you know, because I've got Mondays and Fridays blocked, and of course, the weekends, but it's like a Tuesday, I've got a couple of things. But Wednesdays is like everything's on Wednesday, just to try to make time for that freedom. But just like my boyfriend was just leaving for the gym.
And he's like, when are you done today? I'm like, I don't even know. Like, I haven't even looked at the whole schedule, you know, not to complain, because I've built like a really cool thing. But it is like, it's a monster that like continues to grow, you know, and then it's like partnership deal, you know, just like it could just keep getting bigger and bigger.
And it's just like super overwhelming. So it's cool to hear that. Because I mean, I think at one point, I was super burned out with clients.
But to hear somebody say like, you know what, I actually like being back with the clients. And you know, I've said that recently myself, it's like, gosh, maybe I should just go back to seeing clients, you know, it just kind of shut a lot of his damn because it takes so much effort and time in some cases. Yeah.
And I would say to like running that business also costs a lot of money. Often for me, it's in any way running a coaching business, not just with like hiring coaches. But then with all the like tools you have to use, there's just so many like things you have to spend money on in a coaching business that never occurred to me with private practice for my so true answers are like simple practice, my virtual office, it's how I'll be HR and I'm good to go.
Yeah, exactly. It's such a good point. I love hearing this part of it, because there's so much to the other part of it, too.
So it's really cool to hear that you're like, whatever, I feel like I'm going to just go back and do this now. I like that. Yeah, I'm kind of mixing it up.
Like I'm getting trained in couples therapy, I'm going to be adding that just because I had a successful practice, but I wanted to like just explore other things and try other things. And I love couple stuff. It's helped me and my partner a lot.
We see a couple therapist who's great. So I just got excited about something else that felt like it could also help me with my goal of like having a good life, too. That's really cool.
So what's it like living in Mexico? Like, how's the internet where you are? I mean, it seems pretty good right now. It seems like you have a great connection. Do you have like any blackouts or any issues like that, that you have to like cope with? Yeah, no, great question.
I was so nervous about it before we moved here. And I like obsessed. And of course, I got on a lot of like Facebook groups of I think I got into your Facebook group and found some people who live in Mexico.
And actually, one of them I became friends with, I asked all about it, people reassured me, they said it would be okay. And of course, when we first got here, and we were moving in, like there was an issue where they're like, Oh, we can't fix it. It's just super slow, dah, dah, dah.
And I was losing my mind trying to figure it out. My partner is like very good at this. He's very techie too.
And so he worked it out. And now my internet is good. I have fiber, I think it's okay.
Sometimes there are like times when it's like, it just doesn't work. But I feel like that happens in the States. So are you guys going to pursue like citizenship there? Or just sort of what you're playing around that? I just love hearing about the research and the thought processes and what goes into that because right now people are like going crazy in the Traveling Therapist Facebook group, they're like, I want to move to another country.
And how do I do it? It's like such a big topic right now. And it just it's important, you know, especially for Mexico, everybody's like, I'm just gonna go to Mexico, you know, so I just wonder like, what's that like? Have you looked into that? Yes, we are temporary residents right now. And I looked into all of this sort of like before we came.
So Mexico's really nice in that they're getting a little stricture on us, but they will right now, for the most part, let anyone in for like six months at a time is like without you needing to apply for anything. And then you can like leave the country and come back, you know, after a little bit, you can come back in. So it's been very relaxed.
One thing I love about Mexico, and I just love Mexico, like I think it is one of the coolest countries they offer political asylum here. Like it is a very cool place in so many ways. It's just been very like healing for me to live here.
We got temporary residency, which you pay a little bit of money and you have to apply for it. First I applied for it in Denver with like the consulate office or whatever in Denver, you had to get like an interview there. And then when we got here, we had like a lawyer help us out.
And we had to have an appointment and get like our picture taken for those we have little cards or temporary residence. And then we renewed at once. And then I believe in like two or three years, we can apply for permanent residency, then we would just never need to renew, we could just be permanent residents.
And we could apply for citizenship after I believe it's like six years of having lived here. So I don't know what will do that we may do it. We've talked about buying property here, a lot of our friends have property, I'm not sure if we will end up becoming citizens.
But it would be nice in some ways, because we just like this community so much. And also that there are certain countries you can actually get into easier, I believe when you have a Mexican passport versus a US passport. I can't remember where now.
But I think in like Latin America, you can stay longer in some places and stuff like that. It could just be like a cool thing to have eventually. And yeah, it's such a great community.
So cool. Is there like an end date on the temporary residency? Or did you say you could just have temporary residency until whenever you want? Your temporary residency, you have to renew after one year. And then I think you have to renew it after three years.
When you go to renew it, you can apply for your permanent residency. So you have to live here like a total of four years to apply to be a permanent resident. There might be some workarounds where if you have like a certain amount of savings or something, you can jump right into permanent residency.
I'm not sure. But you do have to meet some income requirements or have a certain amount saved and prove it at the consulate office in order to get that temporary residency. So once you have the temporary, where do you pay taxes? Because I guess you're technically making money in Colorado, right? I mean, because you're seeing clients from Colorado.
I paid in Colorado and to the US federal government, there's something called the foreign income tax exclusion, where you can't be double taxed. So you don't have to pay money like I wouldn't have to pay in Mexico and the US. But I've talked with my lawyer about this.
And she said, like, continue to pay in the states continue to pay in Colorado. So that's what I've done. And I like Colorado.
And so I want to like continue to pay taxes there. It's a great state. Yeah, so interesting.
I just wonder, like, are there things like I'm not even thinking about that people would if they wanted to, like move to Puerto Vallarta? Are there specific things about that? Or is it all Mexico is kind of works the same way? You know, I'm just curious, like, what am I not thinking of? No, yeah, I think in terms of like, the logistics, as far as like, some places are a little stricter with the six month rule that I mentioned before, where like, you know, they'll give you six months, some places are like, they'll only give you three weeks or whatever. I forget. I think like Mexico City can sometimes be which I love Mexico City, by the way, and Guadalajara as anyone is like a metropolitan person wants to live in a cool city in Mexico, highly recommend those places.
I've heard that about Mexico City, like a million times, people are like, you wouldn't love it there. It's so cool. It's so fun.
It feels like a bigger New York City. It's crazy. Yeah.
So I think some places in Mexico are a little different with Puerto Vallarta specifically, some of the things that I love about it, like I said, are like the nature and the beach and all like the beaches, the bay, we're safer from hurricanes here because of the protection of the bay, the wildlife, beautiful, all that stuff. But there's also a really cool expat community here. And I've noticed like when I've listened to your podcast, a lot of people will talk about how big community is a part of their experience.
And not just expats, but just community in general, like there's a really great community here. I'm child free. There's a lot of child free people here.
It's a liberal city. It's been called the San Francisco of Mexico, which I love. It's a very gay friendly place as well.
It's also has strangely a lot of like conveniences of home. Like some things are definitely not convenient. Like we can't flush toilet paper in our apartment.
Oh my god, my boyfriend hates that. We go to a country where you can't flush toilet paper. He's like, I don't know.
It's so adorable. I hate it too, honestly, even after years. But there's stuff like that.
But there's also like there's a Costco in Puerto Vallarta. There's like a mall. I think there's a Mac store.
It's kind of easy to live here. It's actually the most expensive city in Mexico, partially because of that. A lot of people like choose to move here.
A lot of people vacation here. But it's also very safe. I feel safer here than I ever did in the United States with gun violence and stuff like that.
But Mexico is just a country with so many neat places. So I would recommend, you know, if you are interested in Mexico, some of the benefits are like the time zone stuff. Health care is very inexpensive.
It's close to the US so you can see family really easily. But there is all kinds of cool places. Guanajuato, San Miguel de Allende, a ton of places to check out.
That's amazing. Now this might seem like a silly question, but can you swim in the bay there? Yeah, you can swim in the bay. The beach is right near me like that I could walk to.
They're kind of I feel like they're kind of gross. Like they're not bad. Like I like definitely have slum there and would swim there.
But there's like really pretty beaches if you go like 20 minutes outside of town. But yeah, you could swim you can swim now you can swim year round. Yeah, because we went to actually I went with my mom to like Cabo San Lucas and a couple of the little towns in there.
And I was so disappointed because we couldn't get in the ocean. They said the riptide was too strong where we were. And I was like, Oh my gosh, not at all.
And you know, I mean, we finally went out on a boat and they like let us swim in the water and snorkel and stuff. But we couldn't just like from the place we're staying like get in the ocean because the riptide was so bad. And you know, people were telling us a lot of Mexican cities, I guess along that part can't really get in the water because the riptide.
That's why I was wondering because I just love to get in the ocean and swim like right from where we're staying, you know? Totally. Yeah, you should come here. It's great.
And sometimes there will be like every so often like a warning of like, don't go in the water, the riptide is crazy, but it's definitely not all the time. There have been people who have drowned, but it's not common, you know, so. Interesting.
So I've always thought about it's like, Mexico is not really a place. I mean, we've been there some but not a whole lot. And you know, I'm always like, I want to make sure I go on the golf site because I want to be able to swim because I've always heard that about the other side.
Yeah, I don't I don't have any experience with it except for what people have told me. But I did see lots of whales when I was there. That was pretty cool.
You just see the water spouts coming up. It's like there's a wave right there. Oh my gosh.
Oh, okay. So I'm trying to think what else should I ask you about this in case somebody listening wants to come there. The expat community sounds amazing.
Do you guys own a car? Or do you just like walk? No, we walk everywhere or Uber because Uber is also really inexpensive. We don't own a car. And that was actually something I was like, I don't really want to deal with a car anymore.
I always like hated driving and just dealing with like the expense and all the like crap of owning a car. So we live in a really centrally located part of Puerto Vallarta. And we can just walk everywhere pretty much.
So we have a great market right by our house where we go get fruits and veggies. And yeah, we don't really need a car where we are maybe you know, if we ever moved or something, but I kind of hope we just stay there. Yeah, that's so funny.
I like how you alluded to you loved it and cut it so like maybe convinced the partner to go. I do that a lot of like, if he's like, No, I don't want to go there. I like work on him over time.
I'm like, don't you want to go look at these pictures? You know, it's like the slope is your partner like mine where he like likes to travel, but he's not like obsessed with it. I mean, he's more like, I don't know, I like to experience things. I want to be in it, you know, but he's more like I can look at a picture and I feel like I've already been there.
Like he's like totally different than me. You know, I just want to like go immerse myself in the culture and be there and live there. He's just like not very emotional.
He's like super analytical. He's like an IT and you know, so he just doesn't think about things like that. Yeah, like going out west.
I remember I used to go out west like my mom and stuff to see the mountains and you know, I would come back and be like, you would love it out there. You just you can't explain what it's like unless you're in it. He's like, I've seen pictures of whatever.
Anyway, I finally got him to go out west. We've done it like three times now, but he's obsessed. Yeah.
Now that he's gone, but it's like he doesn't think like that. Like he doesn't really think out of the box like that. It's just he's so like intellectual, you know, but now he's like, I love it out west seeing the mountains.
And now he'll tell people we have to go there to actually experience it, you know, but he was never like that. Yeah, totally. I think we're very excited because we're going on a two week trip to Spain in April for our 10 year anniversary and for my birthday as well.
So he's really excited about like, the history and you know, the just being in cities because we've taken a lot of trips that are like, Oh my gosh, we're going to a new nature beach kind of situation, which I love, obviously, but I think he's and I love the culture stuff, too. So I'm so excited. But you know, I think he's really excited about learning and seeing these amazing structures and you know, art and stuff.
So yeah, very cool. Yeah, we're so lucky. I've always I think about this.
I'm gonna tell lucky him to have a partner that can just be flexible like me, you know, and just go. It's really cool to be able to live this life. Yeah, and I'm so grateful he was willing to make the move and like do it with me too.
That was Yeah, that was huge. So you've gotten a lot you feel like you're close with the expat community or down there and y'all developed a lot of friends. Honestly, I was terrified about it, obviously, as I think many people who move abroad are and actually before we moved here, when we were here for a month, we had no real like interaction with really anyone I had we've gone to one happy hour that was like a bunch of like 80 year old retirees.
And we were like, I don't know about this. I was very nervous. Like, I'm not gonna have internet.
I'm not gonna have friends, whatever we got here. And I believe we went to a couple like events sort of like meetup type things were vegan. So we went to like a vegan meetup here.
And then my partner is a film writer, essentially. So he went to like this film writer meetup. And it was like we found our people we used to do improv back in Denver.
And so we formed an improv group with one of our good friends here. Oh my gosh, yeah, we don't really do it as much anymore. But we're all still super close.
One of our friends owns a co working space here that he created essentially for like our friends, but it's like this great place where we can all kind of go and hang out. It's people who share our values. You know, it's people who want to not be living this capitalist kind of like just acquiring stuff kind of life and who want to like explore and travel and live more simply and stuff like that.
So yeah, it just feels like very, very nice. We found these people who want the same things as us. Whereas in Denver, we loved our friends and our people, but it would did feel like okay, everyone's kind of like they're working on maybe buying their second home or they're having their second or third kid or you know, it just felt like we were kind of going in a different direction than a lot of people there.
That makes perfect sense. It does sound like you find your your perfect place. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
And I don't know like how long we'll stay or what we'll do. But for now in our lives, it's just been really great. And you know, working.
Yeah, it's working so cool. So do you think you'll get like permanent residency one day? Or you think you'll just keep the Yeah, I think that in two or three years we will get or Yeah, I think it's maybe two years from now, I think we'll apply for the permanent residency just so we won't have to keep messing with renewing a temporary residency or whatever. I think we'll do that.
So then we'll be able to essentially have many of the same privileges of citizenship, but we won't have like a Mexican path for it, or we wouldn't be able to vote or anything like that. But yeah, you know, we would have a lot of the same abilities, we could come and go here pretty much as we pleased. Yeah, that is awesome.
Very cool. Well, I loved hearing about your journey. So if people wanted to like connect with you, I know you kind of are doing the coaching thing right now.
But if they wanted to connect with you or get on your next cohort, if you ever open one again, or whatever, how do people find you? So yeah, and thank you so much for having me on. Honestly, it's been like a dream to be on your podcast. So it's super sweet.
Thank you. If people are, you know, for my private practice, my website is mindful counseling, Denver calm. And I work with women who are anxious, perfectionistic and have trauma, I do EMTR and IFS.
And then if you are interested in coaching, that is something that I offer more on an individual basis. And the website for that is Emma cobalt coaching.com. I also have a Facebook group, I don't really post on there anymore. But there's tons of free trainings and a deliberated therapist on Facebook.
Oh, I love that. Yeah, I feel like I'm in that group. And I've seen you go live before and I kind of caught a few, you know, minutes of it or something.
Yeah, it's really good content in there. Yeah, thanks. Yeah.
And just for people who are like trying to build a private pay practice. Nice insurance is killing me right now. Private pays sounded pretty good.
Yeah. Can you travel by the way with insurance? Can you be out of the country or? Yeah, it depends on really the insurance company Blue Cross Blue Shield is kind of cracking out they're saying they want providers not in all states. I just want to make that a known caveat because I'm in Virginia, they don't have any policies about it.
But my license is in Virginia, they want the clinician to be in the state for 183 days out of the year, like physically, but the other one Cigna, Aetna, United Behavioral Health, they're fine with it. Some of the Medicaid they care, but who knows? Things change every day. Thanks for coming.
I really appreciate it. You guys, this will all be in the show notes. You can reach out to Emma if you want to talk to her.