As a Traveling Integrative Therapist, Mieke specializes in Dance & Movement Therapy, Creative Art Therapy, Psychodrama, Laughter Yoga, and Trance Dance Ritual. She works with a diverse range of clients, including nomads, expats, and those with alternative lifestyles. In this conversation, she shares how she rebuilt her career as a traveling therapist, the creative and somatic tools she uses in her practice, and her insights on working with clients from all walks of life.
If you’ve ever dreamed of blending travel with meaningful work, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical tips to make it happen.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Mieke:
https://www.movingheartstherapy.com
https://www.instagram.com/movingheartstherapy
info@movingheartstherapy.com
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Transcript:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. I'm really excited today. We have a guest that is not an American based therapist, so that's a totally interesting and different angle. I'm excited to bring this information to you guys. We've got Nika Vander Hayden here with us today.
Kym : Mika. I'm so glad you're here. And I always start out the podcast and I just say, how did you go from becoming a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist? I'd love for you to share your, your story with us.
Mieke : course. Thanks for having me today. So let me see. So first I was traditional psychotherapist, but more like at the sites was like coordinating. I was working with young adults with cancer and their families. I love the job. I had a relationship at that time that wasn't really working very well and there were some power dynamics at job and all of that was suddenly too overwhelming.
I got burned out and then a colleague actually asked me like, okay, what would you do if you would win the lottery? And I just started to cry in front of all my colleagues, which I found so embarrassing. But what came out was so surprising. It was like, I need distance, I need to travel, I need to get out of here.
And it came from so deep. And I knew that that was my inner voice speaking to me. And that same week I resigned and I started to prepare for one year sabbatical. I came back after a year, I had a really good time traveling, even though it was very fearful for me, first time solo traveling for a year.
And I came back like with the idea, okay, let's just continue again. Right. Look for a job again, open my practice and so on. And I just felt like after a few weeks, like, no, this is actually not what I want to do. My life is starting right now. I started. gifting things and all of that. I took distance off the place I was living in a way.
And I booked a one way ticket to Columbia at some things that I wanted to find out for myself. For example, I wanted to. Find out if training other therapists or social workers and so on in the creative art therapies would be something that I really like, or is it like a mental idea? So it's like, okay, let's see if somewhere I can do that on the way.
Maybe I want to do this and that. Just wrote it down and I started my journey. I just never got the impulse to go back, so far,
Kym : I love that.
Mieke : like for visits from time to time, obviously, I love spending summertime in Europe, but in January, it's the 10th year that I will be doing this.
Kym : I was going to say, how long have you been doing it? That's amazing. And just for the listeners when, when you say I went back, you're talking about Belgium, right? Cause initially, originally from you're from there and that's where your, your job was that you really did love, but had to leave because of what you explained.
Okay. So you left. Belgium, but booked a one way ticket to Columbia and then tried to come back and where you tried to do like an in person office and then you were like, Oh, I can't do this. This is like, ah, and then you decided, no, this isn't for me. I've just got to like, I've got to go, got to
Mieke : Exactly. Yeah. And in the beginning, beginning, I um, actually didn't work yet. I was more, more doing volunteers, traveling, see whatever comes my way. And it's only since a few years that I was like, okay, this is fun. I can continue the rest of my life like this, but the challenge is coming. Kind of gone. I think my next step is actually starting to work again with clients.
And I already figured out like, yes, that is something that I really enjoy because I was second guessing everything when I was going through the burnout. Right. And I was like, no, this is what I love. I had done some volunteering here and there where I was giving workshops or retreats, working one on one here and there.
So it's like, yeah, no, this is what I want to do. And I don't regret the choice, even though it has its challenges.
Kym : Oh, that's amazing. I love that story so much. And your type of therapy is a little less traditional too, than maybe just the talk psychotherapist. Right. Thank you.
Mieke : exactly.
Kym : Can you share about that? It's just so interesting to me, like what you do, your modalities and your bio, it talks about trance dance.
I'd love to know what that is and what that means. talk about that a little bit and also the like, not licensure process, cause there isn't even a licensure process necessarily in Belgium, right? It's different, the process over there. And. You know, talk some around, like, how does that translate to seeing clients in the rest of the world?
And how do you manage all that? I know that's a lot put into one, but I want to cover all that if we can, and we have time today. Cause I just think your story is really interesting. So
Mieke : Awesome. Where do you want me to start?
Kym : how about the modality? Like maybe you could tell us a little bit about it. Cause it's, it's different. It's an alternative thing than maybe like your traditional talk therapist kind of role.
Mieke : So I got trained in a four year integrative psychotherapy training, right? And that is already quite holistic which I love. That's why I chose it. And then I integrated also like creative art therapy. Dance therapy, psychodrama, laughter yoga, the transcendence ritual, and also some constellation work.
And Like the integrative frame is very open, so it's kind of easy to hang other things in it. And I really believe in embodiment in creativity, because when we speak, we always tell ourselves the same story, and then you go to a therapist, and then you repeat yourself. And I'm like, okay, my role as a therapist is like to cut those narratives or like to go a layer deeper.
And I find that that is easy through dance and creativity, for example. Thank you.
Kym : Oh, that's amazing. So the integrative school that you went to, I guess it was more, I guess the curriculum was it more focused on like integrative, like somatic and dance and alternative type therapies or is that something you brought in later just as you evolved as a therapist? I see.
Mieke : Exactly. The first four years training, it was more like humanistic. So it was and gestalt and systemic and contextual and psychodynamic just to name some. Right. But the creative ones that are the ones that I added in later.
Kym : what does your practice look like with that? You know, because I would imagine some of that would would like the yoga and all that would be better like in the room With somebody but obviously you're traveling and you're probably doing it over telehealth. I would I would think of a video I'm just curious.
Like how do you how do you manage that? How do you make it work? Cuz I get that question all the time like even EMDR therapists They're like, I don't think I could do it like on video and I'm like You totally can. You just have to be creative with how you do it. So I'm curious, how do you do that?
How do you work those modalities into like telehealth, you know?
Mieke : almost the same way. I will ask, I will ask the participants the client, sorry. Just to, to have their screen in a certain way so I can see all the feet or I can see their whole body or just the face or, you know, or like when I'm doing psychodrama, it's like a lot of chair work, like taking in different positions.
So I will ask, like, put the chair next to you. And then I see them moving from one chair to the other chair. So I, I really want to be able to see them and see what's going on. So as if I am in there with them in the room, sometimes I will dance with them. It really depends.
Kym : So what is a trance dance? I'm just so curious about that part of it. When I read your bio, I was like, I want to know all about the trance dance.
Mieke : Yes. Yeah. No, I love it. So that is a new shamanistic ritual actually, where rhetoric is combined with a certain kind of music and also with movement and we use a bandana. So it's like blindfolded and all of that is like to create a condition so you can actually go into a trance. And then for some people, it can actually be a very spiritual.
In a journey, but for other people, it can be very emotional, or it can be very like bodily physical, right? Because with the bandana, you, you lose control.
Kym : Yeah.
Mieke : that is quite
Kym : senses, I guess.
Mieke : So you're totally on your own. You're not even dancing to be seen by someone, right? It's just like you and yourself.
It can go really, really deep.
Kym : that's so interesting. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna have to go research it. So I love that. Do you ever worry about doing that deep, deep work on like video, like worry about the internet cutting out and the client? I've never had that happen, but I've heard people talk about like, I'm scared to do that type of work.
Cause what if I lose the connection and they're just like stuck in, you know, like I'm, I'm a hypnotherapist too. Like what if they're stuck in trance, you know, have you ever had that or, or even worry about it?
Mieke : I had it. But I don't like me worrying about it's not going to solve the problem, right? And it's so, it's so rare that it happens. And obviously people at the other side, they know that that can happen. that can be part of it. And then you integrate it into therapy session as well.
Like, okay, what did that bring up for you? Mm
Kym : how does your like referral process work? Like in the U. S. it's, you know, we always see our clients back in our state of licensure usually, you know, but there are therapists in the U. S. that see expats and that sort of thing. And I know, you know, getting, getting your degree or certification in Belgium is probably a totally different process.
I'd love to hear about the process just in case anybody's listening or even wants to become an expat and go live in Belgium and get, you know, credentialed or, or go through the same process you did. What does that process look like
Mieke : . I always when I hear about the States, I'm like, Oh my goodness, what's going on there?
Kym : Yeah, us too.
Mieke : you, you, you cannot move as a therapist, you know, so many roles. Yeah. So in Belgium to become a psychotherapist then you actually did a training.
it's not necessarily in university. I did it in a private school, a private organization. And then you pass exams and tests and all of that quite strict. And then You are a psychotherapist and then you can choose to how to say to connect to a certain organ, like the association of this kind of therapist or whatever.
And then they have some criteria like, okay, we want you to do some supervision. We want you to continue studying and so on. But you, it really depends like, what is your basic degree in psychotherapy? Like, are you a child or a systemic? And then you have some options. But you don't have to do that.
It's like totally by choice. So how do I get my people like my clients? I most of them I get through like the ones from Belgium. Still, I do those through therapy directories. That is what works the best, honestly. And then the international ones, more like the nomads, the expats, that's through social media or people referring to me because I'm also living abroad, so people get to know me.
So that's more fluid, let's say, in a different way.
Kym : it's not very clear cut, I guess. Like there's not, not any regulations that says you can't see a client that lives in Columbia and then in Belgium and then Mexico or whatever. Like it's totally open. As far as your life, you're not, you're like, I keep saying licensing words.
I'm so used to that language, but as far as your credentials in Belgium and all that, there's no restrictions around where the client needs to be or where you need to be to be able to see whoever you want to see, basically.
Mieke : Never heard of it, honestly. No, I think like a clinical psychologist. They have more severe rules that is like more strict. Yeah,
Kym : Wow.
Mieke : we are something in between like a clinical psychologist and a coach. Coach is not regulated at all. Psychotherapy is, but still quite flexible.
Kym : I gotcha. So it's almost more of a mindset of like a coach in a way you have like training you've taken a test to give you a credential, I guess. And then you've gone through some supervision if you choose to not everybody has, I guess. But, but, for example, if somebody were listening to this, and they wanted to work with you in the, you know, somebody in the United States, they could just.
bring you up and just work with you as a coach and probably just do a private pay and, and it wouldn't matter.
Mieke : Yeah, that's how, that's how I actually work with people from Canada, the States and so on. Yeah.
Kym : that's amazing. Yeah. Cause you know, something that always comes up for therapists. It's like, you know, we have to see clients sitting that are physically sitting in our state of licensure. So me as a therapist that is sitting in a different state or different country all the time, I wouldn't be able to see a therapist in the United States unless they were like credentialed in every single state that I'm sitting in.
In or licensed in every single state. I'm sitting it at the time of the session. So people ask all the time, like, how do I even find a therapist as a digital nomad? You know, and I always talk about people like you and your situation. It's like, get on an international directory and find a therapist in another country that speaks English.
Does the modality you want to do and see them that way, you know, it might be private pay, but. You know, that kind of thing.
Mieke : Yeah. Totally.
Kym : before we hit record, you also kind of mentioned that there is an insurance, I guess, that you would provide, like a, we call them super bills in the United States, but like a receipt for your services that they might be able to get reimbursed
Mieke : hmm. Yeah.
Kym : is it clients in Europe or different countries?
Or
Mieke : I think it really depends of, of the insurance. If people ask me to, to give them an invoice and we did a small description, therapy, couples. Yeah. counseling, whatever, coaching, then that's what I make. And then like, I know some of them, some American expats living in Tunisia teaching there.
They're able to do that for the moment. I don't know which insurance is this, but it really depends.
Kym : So you, as the clinician, you're not too concerned about like what the insurance is and if it, if, if it'll even cover me, you just give the receipt and then it's up to the client to decide. If it gets reimbursed or not. Yeah, that's smart.
Mieke : Yeah. I
Kym : How do you manage like, let's say you have a client in Africa and Belgium and Mexico and Columbia. Like, how do you manage time zones? Do you have a system or any tips for people? Because I would imagine that could be like kind of a nightmare.
Or not, I don't know. How is that for you?
Mieke : It's not so bad, actually it works quite well for me being in Latin America and working with Europe, for example, or Africa, because When they stop working, that's usually when they want therapy, right? In their evenings. And for me, that's the start of my day. So I love that. What is less convenient is when I go for a few months to Europe, then I'm like working all my nights and I'm like, why am I actually here?
I don't really get to enjoy my stay here.
Kym : That's so funny. Yeah, because that's that's a big question, you know, it's like, all right I've got the schedule set for you know, these time differences but what if I actually want to go into a different times and then like do I rearrange all my clients or do I just Like suck it up and you know work overnight Middle of the night or whatever to see these clients, you know,
Mieke : well the middle of the night I never have done, I think maximum nine o'clock or something at night, yeah, which is reasonable I think, it's okay, if it's not every night, like I would limit it to two nights a week,
Kym : Yeah, that's a tough one because You know, I mean some therapists will like tell their clients ahead of time So people like hey for the next for three months. I'm gonna be in this time zone so we're gonna have to move your appointments to accommodate my schedule or Are am I gonna just as the clinician decide?
I'm just gonna shift my entire schedule. It's hard I feel like it's hard to adapt if you're you know Switching around, you know, but it's also hard on your clients, you
Mieke : Exactly. I think, they have the right, how to say, it's my choice to travel, right? So I feel like I'm the one who actually will adapt to them.
Kym : yeah. I love hearing that perspective. There's so many different like philosophies on it.
Mieke : course, of
Kym : Yeah. And if it's not too hard on you,
Mieke : exactly.
Kym : we move every couple of weeks to a different place, but it's usually the same time zone. So it's not, yeah, you're like, Ooh, so it doesn't, it's not too hard on me, but I could imagine if I was moving like, you know, you're up to, Africa to the United States to Latin America, like constantly, it would be really tough.
I think on the clinician and the client to have to like adapt
Mieke : Yeah, totally.
Kym : I'm glad to hear how you do it. Yeah. And it reinforces, you don't want to be in Europe, I guess. You're like,
Mieke : Yeah,
Kym : to get back to Columbia or wherever you're at Columbia. Right. Is that what you
Mieke : Yeah, I'm now the last week in Colombia, next week to Mexico. Yeah.
Kym : That's amazing. So how often do you switch places?
Mieke : I try to stay in one place about three, four months. Because I feel I need some stability. In the beginning when I didn't work, I was like going at the faster pace, but like also having a business, I need to feel centered and grounded. And I feel like OnePlace is really helping me with that.
Kym : I'm finding that too. The more we move, you know, it's just like last time we moved to this place, it was like, I'm exhausted. I just need to sit somewhere for like a month and just chill. You know,
So how do you know when it's time to go?
Is it, is it, do you preset it like, okay, three months or is it like, just when I feel ready, I'm just going to leave and go somewhere else kind of thing.
Mieke : it kind of depends. In some parts, there's like maximum three months for example.
Kym : visa.
Mieke : Visa things and like in Mexico, I can like stay until whenever. So there, it's really like feeling when do I feel like going somewhere else? Is there something else calling me somewhere? Then I will just go. So it's kind of depending on the destination, I guess.
Kym : And are you still doing this all solo, or do you travel with a partner or anything, or is it just?
Mieke : No, solo. Yeah.
Kym : Wow, and I guess do you have like friends in each location or is it kind of just you just pop somewhere and just make A life for yourself there. And then
Mieke : Usually like the last years, it's more like I tend to go back to places where I already have been, where I have a small community with friends because I really love going back where I already know some people. It's like still finding a kind of a home, even though I'm on the road and moving.
Kym : for sure That's so cool. So I'm trying to think is there anything you know, that maybe I haven't asked you about, or you think that, that you've had to learn and adapt to this lifestyle that might be helpful for people to know about, like, like wifi or like, you know, meeting friends or anything like that, that might be helpful tip or trick that you've picked up along the way.
Mieke : Well, I think I feel easily and fast at home and I make, you Because I think it's because I learned the language quite fast. And to do that, I started immersing myself. I was nine months somewhere being the only tourist. And that really helped me. And now it's so easy. And I see the difference with people who still don't have the language.
Right. They're struggling much more.
Kym : So immerse yourself in the language. How, do you do that? Like, what's your tips for that? Is it just hanging out with locals or.
Mieke : That's part of it. So I knew that that was what I wanted to do, like really learn the language first as a priority. So when I went to Columbia, I looked for a volunteering place and it was kind of. Not in the middle of nowhere, but like where there are not so many tourists. Right. And then I went to live in a fam with a family.
I rented a room there and they only spoke Spanish. And then I took like a few Spanish classes, just like, okay, explain me the verbs, like the present tense, past tense, future tense, and then I can figure it out myself. And then it was just like. Practicing, practicing with the people I was working with, people I was training.
I started to train psychologists in creative art therapies after three weeks. So I had to, and that is the thing, like immerse yourself. So you have to learn it. There's no other choice.
Kym : That is incredible. So you purposefully put yourself in that situation that forced you to learn the language. That, that's amazing to me. Oh my gosh. And so brave.
Mieke : Yeah. I didn't really think about, for me, it was like very illogical because I learned other languages and I found out that that is the fastest way.
Kym : Yeah, I guess, because I guess English isn't your first language, right? Being from Belgium. Wow. That, that's incredible. So in Columbia, I guess it's Spanish, right? In Columbia. Right. So you're, so you're learning Spanish. You're immersed with this family that only speaks Spanish.
You got hired for a job, I guess, to, to teach that, or you just went to Columbia and it looked like there was a It was volunteer.
Mieke : Yeah.
Kym : How'd you find out about that opportunity? Just searching around or?
Mieke : It was connecting with people through the internet and then they referred me to that organization and I went on a call. I, I almost didn't know anything of Spanish and we managed to have the call and they said, yes, you can come. I was like, all right.
Kym : Whoa, that's incredible.
that's what led you to Columbia in the first place, or you already played an ongoing and
Mieke : No, I actually looked at the map and I was like, okay, what is calling me? It's like Columbia. I like the name. I don't know anything about it. And then I started looking for like, you know, an opening for the visa because as a volunteer, you get a volunteering visa, which is, gives you a bit more freedom because I could stay one or two years in one go.
And um, the doors were opening because then I also tried a little bit like the countries around and doors were just not opening at all. So it's like, okay, Columbia, it really is
Kym : wow, I love that story. That's so cool. I hope that inspires somebody listening, you know, just look at a map and see what calls to you and go.
Mieke : like you, you have the freedom to leave when it's not fun, right?
Kym : Yeah, exactly. How, how long is the visa in Columbia? How long can somebody stay or I wonder if it's different for somebody from Belgium than somebody from the U. S. or
Mieke : so what I've heard, it's three months and you can extend it once.
Kym : oh nice, for like another three or,
Mieke : Exactly. Yeah.
Kym : wow, wonder if it's a hard process to extend the visa. I never,
Mieke : Not so much. It's something that you just do online and then you, you pay.
Kym : Yeah, you pay. That's how it was when they were, we were in the Dominican Republic. Like, they were just like, we don't care if you stay really, you know, just, you just have to pay when you leave for the extra days.
Mieke : Mm hmm.
Kym : And I think if you stayed over, like, I think it was like, maybe 9 months, then you had to, like, start giving a percentage of your income to the Dominican Republic.
So we were like, okay, we better leave before we hit that that date
Mieke : Yes. I understand.
Kym : anyway. Oh, I'm always so curious about how all that works for people. That's amazing. You're so brave and adventurous to just go and and do that. It really an inspiration. Thanks for sharing that. I hope it inspires somebody else to, to do something similar.
Mieke : Yeah. I hope so too.
Kym : Yeah. So if somebody wants to work with you and what you do and all of that, and how would they get ahold of you?
Where would they
Mieke : Mm hmm. So you can find me on Facebook, Instagram on my website and it's called Moving Hearts Therapy. Yeah. Or also email. It's like, what is it? Info at movingheartstherapy. com. Exactly. Yeah.
Kym : that. Oh, how wonderful. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today to come talk to us and share
Mieke : No, with pleasure.
Kym : super inspirational.