Have you ever thought about being an expat therapist in Germany? Whether you're drawn to the cultural richness, new professional challenges, or the promise of a different lifestyle, moving your practice abroad comes with plenty of questions. From navigating complex licensure requirements to adapting to a new healthcare system and building a client base in an unfamiliar culture, the journey can be both exciting and daunting.
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Tanya Dantus, a therapist who has experienced firsthand the ups and downs of being an expat therapist in Germany. Tanya shares her journey of overcoming licensure hurdles, the realities of working in Germany's traditional healthcare system, and the unique challenges she faced. She also dives into her current work—ranging from running intimate group programs and virtual intensive outpatient programs to her specialized work with expat women—and shares her future plans, including more travel and expanding her coaching offerings.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Tanya:
Website: https://tanyadantus.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tanyadantus/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tanyadantus
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Membership: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/travelingtherapistmembership
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple iTunes | Spotify | Google Podcast | Stitcher | Amazon | Castbox
______________________________
Sponsored by Berries: Say goodbye to the burden of mental health notes with automated note and treatment plan creation! www.berries.icu/therapists
Sponsored by Alma: Managing a private practice can be challenging. There are obstacles at every turn — from navigating the credentialing process, to managing finances, to finding new clients. That’s where Alma can help. Alma is on a mission to simplify access to mental health care by focusing first and foremost on supporting clinicians. https://helloalma.com/kym
______________________________
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. Really excited today. We have somebody that's got a lot of experience with living in another country, which I'm always looking for, but she does a ton of other things too. So Tanya Dentis is here with us today. I would love to just start out with the question I ask everybody, and that's, how'd you go from being just your traditional therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:22] Tanya: Thank you, Kim. I come from a very immigrant family. Like, we've lived in different places, we speak a lot of languages, that's kind of how we roll. I moved when I was five for the first time, so I think I was always more adventurous and willing to learn. Yeah. Try something different and feel at home in the airport kind of thing, you know,
[00:00:41] Kym: Absolutely. So it started early and then did you have the traditional path like most of us do in the beginning? Like a brick and mortar maybe and in your state of licensure or did your adventure sort of evolve differently than some people?
[00:00:55] Tanya: Yeah, no, my adventures started differently. For me it was hard to even settle to do my master's program, but it coincided with having my son, was six months when I started my master's at pacifica in Santa Barbara, and I was traveling then too because I would go from San Diego to Santa Barbara every once a month for the weekend cohorts.
[00:01:13] And so I did that for three years and then I met my husband who's in Germany and I traveled there and then I ended up moving to Germany right when I finished the program. So I did my hours in Germany.
[00:01:29] Kym: Oh, like your supervision hours and everything.
[00:01:31] Tanya: Yeah, worked there for the beginning and then I just moved to California three years ago and now I'm figuring out, like, how do I do this here?
[00:01:40] Kym: That's interesting. So you went like the totally opposite direction. Most people go, how'd you find supervision? And I get that question all the time, especially brand new graduates that are like, I'm ready to get out of here now. How do I do these hours in another country? Like people ask that all the time.
[00:01:54] Tanya: It's super hard, honestly, like, it leads us into the topic of just, therapy in Germany in general because It's really hard to get permission to do therapy in Germany,
[00:02:03] so part of my research of how to do it was to reach out to all the English speaking therapists in my area. I lived in Freiburg, which is in the southwest region next to France and Switzerland, so I, like, talked to everyone who was, like, a foreign therapist. Also, looking for my own therapist to adjust to a very
[00:02:23] different culture, you know? So I, like, talked to a couple different people about, like, You know, just how was the journey? I just moved here. I'm a therapist, da da da da. And through one of those, it was a good fit. She was a LMFT from the U. S. and she could, she could do it and she was willing to do it.
[00:02:42] But I also had some people who at first said they would or was hard. It was really hard. And Yeah. she was really helpful. But then she moved to somewhere in Africa. . I think she moved to Mozambique. Her daughter was there or something. But Thankfully she helped me a lot.
[00:02:56] Kym: That's amazing. I think it's gotten a little more flexible because there used to be regulations and the licensing boards like, oh, supervision has to be in person face to face with your supervisor, like a while back, like 2018 17 for some states. But I think that's gotten a little easier these days. there isn't that restriction, it can be virtual.
[00:03:14] There's no like, Regulations that I see where the, supervisee needs to be sitting at the time of supervision, but, I'm sure it's different for every state and every licensure type, really.
[00:03:23] So you've got your hours and then, did that then license you in California, but you're sitting in Germany and you decided, I guess you want to see clients in Germany, not in California, or how did you do
[00:03:35] Tanya: I think, I think I got licensed in Germany first, if I remember correctly, I mean everything got slowed down because I had to learn German. Because it is really really messed up the way they have it in Germany like to become a true therapist Basically, you're a doctor, they have a very old school system, which is like guilds
[00:03:54] You're basically in the guild of doctors, and it's such an old school system that they protect it like nothing else, and every foreign therapist I spoke to, even ones that had like PHE's, They wouldn't allow it. It was like this whole thing. I actually did a lawsuit against Germany
[00:04:11] Kym: You did?
[00:04:12] Tanya: yeah, I realized it was like discriminatory, You know, can't be a coincidence. It was like the PhD from Ecuador, I had another person I shared an office with Katerina, she also did her master's in San Francisco. She was from the Czech Republic and she'd done her master's. She also couldn't get it. it's like, they don't equate us education or any other education to German education.
[00:04:35] And so it was like. You would do the whole revalidation process and even if it said, okay, revalidation board says your master's is a master's to equate it to a, clinical psychology degree, it was like, no,
[00:04:49] So my point was always like, well, just then tell me what classes to take to make it up to your standard. And I could do that, but the answer was always, like, you almost, have to start over, kind of thing, which felt like, this doesn't make sense, in addition to all the hours of, you know, supervised hours we've done, like, it needs to equate to something.
[00:05:08] The answer was always no, it was very, very difficult. I have a feeling they've got to relax around that. The positions are often held by people, you know, it's, called a BAMTA, it's a government position and they can't be fired.
[00:05:21] And so it's like, eventually, they gotta move out of that office and like newer, younger people have to come in with a different criteria to be able to equate those things, but it was really tricky, but there is one. way that is like the way people do this,
[00:05:36] is there's this figure kind of like a naturopathic doctor. It's so weird that they're so strict about stuff. And then they have this figure, but I think it happened after world war two, there were so many hurt people and they didn't have enough doctors that they created this sort of like, Allowed, permit of being a, it's called, RIN or ur, which is like a healing practitioner, and there's a specific subcategory of that that is for psychotherapy.
[00:06:06] I studied. German. There's these classes people offer to train for the exam for that. And I liked that class to better my, German too, because it was like more interesting to me about psychotherapy than like, just you know, apple, banana, you know, like it was more in my profession. And so it was interesting. And then I had to pass An oral exam they exempt me from the written one because of my master's like, thank
[00:06:31] Kym: oh my God. kudos. Cause I would have just been like, nevermind.
[00:06:34] Tanya: The oral exam was so stressful, and even Germans have to take this exam and they're scared of it and they don't always pass it. Like I had someone right in front of me, a German speaker, not pass it I definitely passed it because of my experience, I knew what to say but in German, oh my gosh, it was rough.
[00:06:51] And you're still not allowed to take, for example, insurance. My ex husband helped me, with all the, debates, they would say, no, we can't take your insurance because you're not this, and then we would respond with all this, written, kind of legal language, and they never. Even though in theory they could, I believe, pay for it. So I had to do all private pay.
[00:07:13] Kym: That is incredible. So this is cut off topic, but I want to hear about the lawsuit. I mean, was it favorable, I guess, or, filing had to drop it? Like, I'm just so curious what happened
[00:07:22] Tanya: I finally had to drop it. I didn't know too much about German law, until I lived there and I had to deal with several legal things. And I didn't know that German law, apparently, like, they have, They're, International Court of Human Rights or something like that, there's a ton of cases against Germany because they take so long. very bureaucratic and it just takes forever. I could've kept going, but it came a point where I was like, it would've meant more money
[00:07:50] Kym: And then you, You'd already found the other like way to go about it with this naturopathic
[00:07:54] Tanya: Yeah, I just wanted the full recognition because I, I feel like we, they don't understand, the kind of training we do here. They dismiss it as if we're not doing, and I went to many therapists in Germany and believe me, we're above that.
[00:08:09] I will say it's crazy because people ask me that like literally I got asked this like a couple days ago They're like, oh I had the same fantasy you think birthplace of psychology
[00:08:19] Kym: Yeah. Right.
[00:08:20] Tanya: the thing I thought i'll go I had been looking at becoming like a jungian analyst I was in Switzerland was we bordered Switzerland.
[00:08:28] I was like, Oh, I'll go be, at the Jung Institute. The Jung Institute is super expensive. First
[00:08:34] of all, I ended up not going that route, but honestly, I was so disappointed. Like I, I tried so many therapists. my confidentiality was violated. I was in that class, I was telling you to study psychology and someone was like, Hey, do you know this person? That's my husband. I'm like. My therapist, how do you know that I know him?
[00:08:54] She's like, oh, I went home one day and I was like, this American girl was in my class and he was like, oh, is it her? And I was like, you kidding me?
[00:09:02] Kym: Are you kidding?
[00:09:03] Tanya: violated my confidentiality so, like, casually? I had a therapist who like, I cried and they were like, a robot, totally not, like,
[00:09:13] Kym: So culturally different. Oh my gosh. All right So you figure out this way to do this because I guess at the time you were like i'm just gonna be living in germany So I might as well see clients in germany, right?
[00:09:23] Tanya: I mean, from the moment I started, I also saw them in English, I provided an only English speaking. Oh good. Yeah. and my practice became very specialized in seeing, like, expat women, or I had Germans who, also wanted something a little different. And they came to me and were willing to do it in English.
[00:09:42] And I, I had people from all over the world. I got to have a practice that was fascinating. I had people from, a lot of people from India. I had a lot of people from, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Croatia. From Latin America, from spain,
[00:09:58] they wanted to be understood in what it's like to adjust to Germany. They were often in bicultural marriages. The adjustment of living in a different culture.
[00:10:08] And then I also did group programs. I ran a lot of like women's circles and women's empowerment became such an amazing circle of people that the last group I did, they send me pictures and they're like, Oh, we're getting together and like,
[00:10:23] Kym: that's so nice. I love that. Oh, I love them. That happens from a group It's like you guys are gonna be friends for life. And was it all virtual I guess since you had people from all the different countries or
[00:10:32] Tanya: no, no, no. They were there. They were
[00:10:33] Kym: They were there. Oh expats like from croatia or whatever. They were living in germany. How do I just oh, that is interesting
[00:10:39] Tanya: was all in person there, or most of it was in person. Here and there I had some virtual, but I had an office there and, I love Freiburg. It's a beautiful city. Very green and lots of, forest and rivers and lakes.
[00:10:52] Kym: That's great and before we hit record you did say something kind of interesting about the pay for services basically So when you were living in germany people were paying for your services at one rate now that you're back in california can we touch on that a little bit.
[00:11:06] Tanya: Yeah, I found that maybe it happens here too a little bit, but like in Germany, people are used to their insurance paying for therapy. And so it's like, paying out of pocket, already feels like a lot, and then living in California, I was in shock. I still sometimes am, but like the first year I was like, what? Everything's so expensive
[00:11:26] I think everywhere I've heard from my friends in Germany, that things went up after I left, like in 2022. I've heard that things slowly went up after COVID kind of thing, so they may not be like how it was when I was living there. but I really felt it coming to California. And of course my rate, it's going up again soon too, you know,
[00:11:47] Kym: got to you got to keep up with everything. So you couldn't get on the insurance panels in Germany, right? So you had to just be private pay and I guess adapt your rates Accordingly to what people could pay in Germany, and I don't know like what's the average somebody pays I know it's probably changed over the years,
[00:12:03] Tanya: Yeah, for groups, I want to say, maybe 25 euros or something for one group. And then, the individual. It's also like kind of, you know, it's been like three years right now and I'm thinking of a number, but I don't want to make a total mistake and then have it be like, Oh, people are telling me like, what, you know, but. I have people who reach out to me from Germany still because they hear of a friend of theirs and I feel bad because I get it that it sounds like so much money, my, session rate right now.
[00:12:34] And I do offer a couple sliding scales even and sometimes I'll say like, I remember the last woman who wrote me was a friend of someone who's been a very loyal, Participant in all my groups and everything and I was like, you know, because you're a friend of this person I can give you this special or whatever She was like, yeah still I can't afford it.
[00:12:51] I was like, i'm sorry, i'm here if something changes But you know how it is. It's hard
[00:12:56] Kym: You have to have good boundaries with it so you can make a living,
[00:12:59] Tanya: yeah, I do guard that more than ever because, it's my time with my son as he's growing up, so I have to be mindful.
[00:13:06] Kym: And it's cool that you can do both. I mean, you can live in California and see clients at that rate. If you want to, if you ever decide to go back to Germany, you can adjust again. You know, I think a cool part of having a private practice and, being able to decide that stuff for yourself, no matter where you live,
[00:13:18] Tanya: yeah. I'm excited for, changes that are coming and stuff like that. I do plan to be traveling more. I've been working at the Meadows of Arizona, like the, recovery center and it's like where Pia Melody, the codependency was coined
[00:13:34] Kym: Yes that place is like Famous that's amazing that you're working there.
[00:13:39] Tanya: yeah, I got there because I was kind of nerding out and geeking out I love Pia Melody's work and codependency recovery and all of that, and I'm constantly referring people to CODA and codependents Anonymous for those who don't know what that is. I really like this podcast called Journals of a Love Addict by, it's a therapist called, Jodi White.
[00:14:01] she's a therapist and a self qualifying love addict and she talks a lot about attachment and codependency and she's also a pit so post induction training trained, which is what you get trained as in the meadows model.
[00:14:15] And so I went to look at their website. Like, how do I get pit trained and all this stuff? And then I looked at their job openings and then I applied. So if anyone is wanting to get a job at the Meadows, talk to me because I know there's some openings
[00:14:28] Kym: Wow, that's so cool. I was just thinking the first time I ever read melody Beaty you know, I was like, oh my God, this changed everything for me, her work around like boundaries and, that whole, like, don't work harder than your client, basically all of that.
[00:14:41] Like once I learned that stuff, it totally shifted everything for me. And I used to refer people to the Meadows, you know, cause I, I'm a certified substance abuse counselor. So of course I always had, you know, the families coming in and needing to work on that stuff too. So I just, love that
[00:14:53] Tanya: yeah, those are great, great books. I think every therapist needs to know this stuff and now it's all trendy like boundaries but yeah, she's like old school. She's the OG.
[00:15:04] Kym: is codependent no more. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about that, changed my world at the time, especially cause I was getting into addictions and I didn't even understand really the codependency dynamic with the families and how that all connected. I think that's just fascinating and it's so cool that you worked in Meadows.
[00:15:19] Tanya: Yeah, I run one of their virtual intensive outpatient programs, so like, one of the California groups I do.
[00:15:25] Kym: on top of that, you also have some other stuff that you do too, right? the coaching and, I'd love to talk about that too, because I was reading your bio and I was like, super cool niche. Especially with what you already do in the meadows, it's really connected in a lot of ways.
[00:15:38] Tanya: it is. So my niche with women started, gosh, honestly, very early. I was like in my 20s in Mexico. I was born in Mexico city and then I lived in Palenque and Chiapas. And then I also lived Tulum and Playa del Carmen, before it got as trendy as it is now. it was really cool.
[00:15:56] I was doing like women's circles down there with other people. and then when I had my son, it was like something. woke up in me of understanding women and how much we go through to like birth a child and to feed it and how unappreciated we are.
[00:16:12] And it was like my heart burst into love for women. And I was like, I can't do anything but support women. And so I've seen men in my practice too, but like my specialty is women's psychology. I do somatic experiencing. So I do a lot of embodied work with women.
[00:16:30] And then the groups I run, those are my favorites. So Write her story as a group. I've run it three times, two times in Germany. One's like international online. Women write a story about their own life, a piece about their own life, and we work it, we workshop it, we
[00:16:46] move through it, you know, it's a tight sisterhood, and then we bring it onto the stage.
[00:16:51] Kym: oh my gosh. Really?
[00:16:54] Tanya: It's like, next level healing because the stage just amplifies everything, you know, you think of a stage you might already get a little bit of nerves around, like, oh my gosh, right?
[00:17:03] It's like you have to work through so much of the stuff in your body. It's not like just an idea and talking. It's like, what is it going to take to get you on the stage? And we move through it together as a group. And, it's an amazing experience.
[00:17:16] I did two rounds in person in Germany, and then the last round was online, and it was, an inquiry for me too, I wasn't sure, would this work online, and honestly, blew my mind.
[00:17:28] What's beautiful about this is when you get to the moment of showcase, we stopped calling it performance because we feel like women perform all the time and this is not that. It's more like a, presentation.
[00:17:40] So it's like, you don't know who came here to be healed. Is it the audience? Is it the women? Is it everybody? Because really the women here They're in the role also of healers.
[00:17:50] They're, touching every person's heart in that. You know, even virtual space people are in tears. They tell me after like, oh my gosh, I forget what it is to hear Realness and vulnerability and like it's very moving.
[00:18:04] Kym: it reminds me of, I used to do outpatient IOP as well. Like I would run almost, I think six IOP meet groups a week, but it was always like that in the group. you start it and you don't even know like what's going to happen. But for some reason, everybody's put there at the exact right moment in the right place.
[00:18:19] And it was a miracle every time. It was like, this just blows my mind, how this, group process works. I feel emotional talking about it. Cause I haven't done it years now, but That used to just blow my mind every day. It was like, we have a new person come in and you think, Oh God, how's this going to fit this group dynamic? And then it just always seemed to be like so magical.
[00:18:36] Tanya: That's so true that's what I love about group work is like that in general like people often say to me like why group, You know, of course you can only heal some of those family dynamics with individual it's like mono channel, right?
[00:18:50] But then it's like when you have the group there's all these Dynamics that occur and it's such an opportunity for healing at a deeper level highly recommend for everyone always, you know
[00:19:01] Kym: Yeah, So how long is that program that they, write her story and how long does it go for?
[00:19:07] Tanya: it's always been four months, so I'm starting it in April, the next round of it, and I'm trying a new format of six months, because once you're in it, it's like, oh my god, I just want to soak this up, and like, be in it, and, yeah, I'm gonna try six months, so,
[00:19:23] Kym: And you're doing that in a coaching capacity, right? Like you were saying, they're from all over, so it doesn't have to be like, because you're licensed in California, they have to be from California. It's more just you put this out into the world as a coaching product, I guess, and attract your ideal people to it. And they sign up and do this. Like how many people do you have in a group normally? Is there a limit?
[00:19:42] Tanya: I keep it really nice and small so six to eight We close it at eight for sure, it's intimate So we have kind of these circles that it's by far the most popular thing I do, they deep circles like where
[00:19:54] I have topics that I bring in. And then there's, maybe some kind of poem or some kind of something I'm presenting the topic with.
[00:20:04] And then the women might journal a little bit for a few minutes on a couple questions I give, and then we start the discussion. Discussion and women start sharing and then we might have a moment of ritual like maybe having a little bit of an experience And then maybe there's a little more discussion and it's just those evenings are just so or just those moments They're not
[00:20:24] always in the evening are So special and then we have a moment where it's more embodied I call that body lab or creative lab where It's like okay How does it feel when you're feeling empowered like maybe let me put on a song and move around your space Like what do you walk like when you're feeling? in your best self or like okay now exaggerate it and you know I just give some some guides
[00:20:47] And we also are so used to the performing of like, this is how it looks and how I should dance and ballet and all that drama,
[00:20:54] this is like, how does it feel? And so, you know, you were talking about that reconnecting piece with our bodies, right? making that piece again with ourselves in that way.
[00:21:04] Kym: Yeah. So this is, your model you came up with, right? This isn't like somebody's model that you've adapted. This is your, thing, right?
[00:21:11] Tanya: Yeah, so many, many years ago, I did a program where I did write a story about my life and I put it on the stage myself and I love the experience so much, but I also found that the person who ran it was not a therapist.
[00:21:25] And there were a lot of elements of it that I felt like. Could have gone so much deeper
[00:21:31] and like, just created a safer space to really just, move through a lot of it. And so it was my hope and my desire to kind of take the shell of the idea, which is okay, write something and put it on stage. Which a lot of people do. You know, since then I've heard, it's like a lot of people do that.
[00:21:49] Kym: Psychodrama therapist. Yeah. That sort of thing. Yeah.
[00:21:53] Tanya: Or like narrative, like a lot of people kind of do that. There's also this thing called playback theater I've discovered and a lot of people do that. But I think what I'm realizing is that I have this really neat duality that is like I'm trained as a therapist and I'm trained as a coach. a very deeply safe space and I I value a very deeply safe space I have some skills that help me do that
[00:22:16] And I do the somatic experiencing. So, you know, I have people who, give talks about their miscarriage it's just like really, Deep intense stuff and we're able to move safely with these topics in a contained way and I think it's really important,
[00:22:32] we want to have awareness and containment and then these people are able to trust themselves to move through in this amount of time. and develop something that they're able to share
[00:22:44] and the power of going through that and like from feeling like I could never share this or like a lot of people don't they're like I have nothing to share which is another wound right
[00:22:54] of like yeah. voice or what I have to say doesn't really matter no one wants to hear what I have to say and it's like we always of course find something deeply meaningful of course they have something to share
[00:23:06] And the women, sometimes I'm just like hands off and they're like supporting each other and lifting each other up and then they all get themselves, in the group, they lift each other up so that they all get to that point where they all want to present together and even invite their loved ones to go do it.
[00:23:24] So I feel like, It's a very kind of delicate balance or ecosystem that I create in that program. That is maybe what makes it unique of like the body work. Cause I always danced and like did theater and stuff like that. So I have that movement, theater y part, but then the therapy and the coaching. I feel like it's what brings together my best skills
[00:23:44] Kym: That sounds amazing. And it starts again in April.
[00:23:47] Tanya: Yeah.
[00:23:47] Kym: Just think it's so fascinating. You know, I've talked to other therapists on here that have sort of developed their own models and transitioned it to a coaching model so they can share it with the world and not be so restricted with it.
[00:23:57] And I just, I think it's fascinating how you even come up with the concept and, what's the origin of it and how did you adapt it? And how do you run it? So it's really cool to hear you share that. So if you guys are listening, Tanya, how did they find you and work with you? They wanted to do something like this, or even learn from you about Germany or, Mexico.
[00:24:13] Tanya: Yeah, sure. So my website is just www. TanyaDantas. com. So T A N Y A D A N T U S. com. I think on there, there's a link to my Instagram. Which is the same, my Facebook, and also, they can book an initial consultation right on there
[00:24:32] Kym: yeah. You said that you're planning maybe to travel more. Are you going back to Germany or are you going to go hit some other countries?
[00:24:38] Tanya: actually, we're leaving in almost a week to go to the Dominican Republic. We're going,
[00:24:44] Kym: we spent all winter there last
[00:24:45] Tanya: oh, did you?
[00:24:46] Kym: Yeah.
[00:24:46] Tanya: We're going on, like, a really cool thing, we're gonna go build a family, a house over there, so, me and my son. We haven't been yet to the DR, so we're excited. We were in Japan last year loved it. I can't wait to go back. And then we'll go to Europe again in the summer.
[00:25:04] He goes to Croatia a lot. I haven't been, but he has like some ice cream he can't wait for me oh my gosh. He's like gonna bring back ice for me while I wait in Germany. And yeah, I don't have any other super set plans other than those for upcoming travel.
[00:25:22] Kym: I love that So when you see your clients, you'll still be able to do like the Meadows job while you're traveling all around or,
[00:25:27] Tanya: I don't know, when I first interviewed, that was like one of my key questions being a traveling therapist. I was like, can I travel? And they were like, sure. And then when I got into the job, HR said no, but IT says yes.
[00:25:41] So, in the past, my past supervisor was like, if you're traveling, you're not moving somewhere. If you're traveling, it's fine.
[00:25:48] So I did it from Costa Rica. I've done it from a couple of places, but I don't know. I haven't decided yet. Sometimes it's also nice to just take a total break.
[00:25:56] The beauty of my private patients is like I can move the schedule around and if, you know, a day before I decided need to cancel , I can always do that, but with Meadows, it's like, I can't quite do that. So
[00:26:07] Kym: Gotcha. That makes sense. Well, thank you so much. Just such amazing information. Thanks for sharing your story with everybody. And like I said before, this will all be in the show notes for you guys. If you want to reach out to her, especially the traveling therapists that are always asking me about Germany. She's got your answers clearly. So thank you so much for coming.