Mental health roles in international schools are often misunderstood—or completely overlooked—when therapists consider a career abroad. In this episode, I chat with Jen Kantor about her journey from working as a school-based therapist in Seattle to supporting students at international schools in Brazil and now Switzerland.
Jen walks us through how she found her roles, what day-to-day life looks like in this setting, and how it differs from traditional therapy work. We also talk about licensing limitations, and what to expect from the international school environment—especially when it comes to boundaries. If you’ve ever been curious about what mental health support looks like inside an international school, you’re going to love this conversation.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Jen:
Email - jenakantor@gmail.com
International School Services - https://www.iss.edu/
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. I am really excited to have our guest today, Jen Cantor. She's got a super cool story. I don't even know all the details yet, so I'm really excited just to dive in and figure this stuff out.
[00:00:14] So, Jen, thank you for being here and. I always start out with that question, like, how'd you go from being just a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:22] Jen Kantor: thank you so much for having me, Kim.
[00:00:24] Kym: You are welcome.
[00:00:25] Jen Kantor: Thrilled to be here. I don't know if I can say I was ever really a traditional therapist per se. I did a fair bit of traveling, sort of doing different outreach, mental health type services in my twenties. Not with a particular organization per se, but just different things that really piqued my interest of being in international settings and, and, specifically regarding mental health.
[00:00:47] And then I would say for 10 years, like during the process in which I was able to get licensed, I was working as a school-based therapist in a health clinic in a Seattle public school, So, it was kind of like a private practice in that I was on my own there. It, it wasn't paying the same as a private practice might.
[00:01:05] But it was basically a, a public health clinic in a school. And so I worked really closely with our nurse practitioner there, and it was, comprehensive health model. and I loved it. I loved the population, I loved the clientele. A lot of the young people I was working with you know, I think a lot of us get into the work this way.
[00:01:23] You know, we're just young people who were the most amazing, resilient, had walked across continents to get to safety and.
[00:01:31] Kym: Yes.
[00:01:31] Jen Kantor: of population that's so, so resilient. at some point during that time, I became a mom. And then I was in Seattle and I was like, Ooh, how can I be a parent and also work in public health, mental health services and provide for my little family?
[00:01:49] And a good friend of mine said well, you should go work in the international schools. You know, you, you don't have to live paycheck to paycheck, especially not with your credentials. and initially I, I thought to myself, I don't think they're looking for me. You know, they, they're looking for like a school counselor who does, you know, scheduling and things like this, which I'm very much not interested in.
[00:02:09] and she encouraged me and said I would just get out there and put yourself out there and see. So I did a round of different interviews, applied for a bunch of different schools, and I got two offers. One in Lebanon and one in Brazil.
[00:02:20] So I moved to Brazil as a single mom and Something that's very cool about the international school system.
[00:02:27] Depending on the school, you have to do your research, but they provide housing, they provide top healthcare, they provide round trip tickets back to your home of whatever you initially where you said your home was. And sometimes on top of that, there's a lot of other perks and bonuses. So, that was really cool.
[00:02:45] That's what initially sort of got me to Brazil.
[00:02:48] Kym: Oh my gosh. Yeah, because when I read your bio, I didn't even realize there was a child involved. So you just take your child with you and I guess they go to the school, go to the school system there or how like how I need to know everything, like, whoa. That is amazing.
[00:03:01] Jen Kantor: It was really cool. So I went to Brazil and my kid could just attend the school where I was which was great 'cause I was in high school. She was in elementary, and I could kind of do just as much helicopter parenting as I wanted to do. And I would say a challenge about that particular position is even though they knew my credentials and background when they hired me, I think they were also still looking for someone who.
[00:03:24] Side of school counseling. So in terms of sort of what's my passion? That was a challenge for me to say, okay, how can I do both of these things? 'cause this is my job, so I need to do what they're asking of me. And the cool part about that was when you are in a school, if you feel that you have supportive administration, you know, you can say, Hey, I wanna do a real talk with Jen after school for the students, and can you provide.
[00:03:48] The snacks and can you let me do this wellness program or that mental health focus? And I really got to do that pretty well at that school. And then while I was there, I got to meet an amazing, wonderful Brazilian man who I then married.
[00:04:03] Kym: Wow.
[00:04:04] Jen Kantor: and then we decided together. To, you know, after about five years at the school, it felt like it was time to move on.
[00:04:10] So I went for the recruiting cycle again, and then I was able to get a job here in Switzerland where I live now.
[00:04:16] So in the meantime, you know, we've expanded our family and what's really great about this school that I I feel so fortunate about is they really. Trust me and let me do my thing.
[00:04:28] You know, they let me do my mental health and wellbeing thing, which I have to be obviously mindful about because I don't have a license in Switzerland, I have to be careful about how I present my credentials. And of course, I can't technically diagnose.
[00:04:43] So I, I'm really careful in those conversations, how I phrase things. But I really am able to do a lot of therapeutic work with the students here.
[00:04:52] Kym: that's amazing. So for myself and those listening, like what exactly is an international school? Because you know, I'm not even that clear on it. Is it like the school that the expats kids go to? I don't even know really what an international school is 'cause I don't have kids or anything.
[00:05:06] Jen Kantor: that's a great question. So, I mean, I think it can really depend on the country and the scenario. this is a Swiss sporting school, so it.
[00:05:14] A very international. You know, we have a, a handful of American students. We have really students from every corner of the world. Of course, as you can imagine, one has to be in a certain bracket to be able to attend a Swiss boarding school.
[00:05:28] We do have students here who have access to scholarships or whose parents work with certain companies, and then they are allowed scholarships here. So this is a, a very international school just in terms of. Students are from all over the world. And in, Brazil there were about 50% Brazilians in the school, and then 50% students of, you know, their parents worked for different companies and they were there and either they were diplomat kids or they were working, you know, whatever at gas and oil, you name it.
[00:05:57] but this, this school, it is like technically called an American school, although it's. There's not so many Americans here. We, we follow the International Baccalaureate program schedule for students who wanna pursue that academic route. So yeah, I, I would say it's very international in that people are from all over and we have staff also from all over I would say.
[00:06:19] Kym: Now, do they, expect you to speak other languages like Brazil? I mean, what is Brazil? do they speak Portuguese in Brazil? Did you need to know other languages or was it like, no, we just need American Americans to speak because great English and.
[00:06:31] Jen Kantor: That's a great question. And I, I'm a little bit embarrassed because I, in, in my twenties, I was definitely a very judgmental traveler. Like, wait, you've lived here for how long and you don't speak the language. And that's when I was in Brazil and due to a variety of factors, including COVID and pregnancy brain I wasn't ever able to fully grasp Portuguese and I think that.
[00:06:51] Kym: like a very hard language.
[00:06:54] Jen Kantor: That's something that, you know, there's been a lot of papers and research written about, like international schools in general and how when you look at the origins of those, these are for us and sometimes historically like us meant white people, us meant English speaking people. So, so that said, I think there are some problematic.
[00:07:13] If you look back at the history, and I can't speak to the history of the school where I'm at now, you know, it's a Swiss boarding school, but if you look at international schools around the world it's by and large always been easy to be a white person, you know, a white English speaking person sort of going into this world.
[00:07:30] And that's probably another podcast for another time about the lie of white supremacy, et cetera. But that said, so I didn't master Portuguese, although my older daughter's totally fluent. And of course my husband speaks Portuguese. So, and here it's good to speak French. I have an okay level because I did live in France a long time ago, but it's not a requirement to work here.
[00:07:52] Kym: Okay, so I'm sure everybody listening is like, oh my God, I wanna do that. How do I do that? So, could you tell us, like, because I guess I was reading your bio, right? And did you go to school internationally? Did, do I remember that correctly? Like you got your, I don't know if it was your master's or your undergrad, like internationally, and then your major was like international studies right? in social work or something like that.
[00:08:11] Jen Kantor: Yeah, so I I did go to graduate school in London and I found a master's of International Social Work and community Development. and fortunately for me that degree transferred to the US so I was able to get licensed in the us. I'm not sure how much that has helped me with the international school.
[00:08:30] Job. I, I think for any listeners who are curious and, and I just, I wanna make a side note and say that I've listened to some of your podcasts and, and heard some of just the really cool digital nomads and, you know, va, I don't wanna say vagabond, but you know what I mean. like For me anyway.
[00:08:49] I know that there are people who are parents who do this, but as a parent and with two kids, I really appreciate the stability of okay. Health insurance. Okay, this is your school. If I don't wanna homeschool, which I don't there's an option here that's good. But, regarding the, the question of how to, to get into it.
[00:09:07] There's a few, few different websites that I can, I'd be happy to share and we can put in the show notes. I mean, and I think the, the thing that's hard and you have to have a willing heart, which I'm sure the adventurers listening do have willing hearts. Um,
[00:09:22] Kym: Make anything work. Yeah.
[00:09:24] Jen Kantor: totally. And especially in this moment where maybe a lot of people are interested in leaving the US for a variety of reasons. The willingness to know that you won't just get to do therapy and you might not really get to exactly do therapy in the way that you're accustomed to. This position I have now feels very special to me because I think in general, in a school setting, they're not really wanting you.
[00:09:47] to be practicing on campus for so many reasons, but because it's a boarding school and so the students are far away from home you know, we're basically, all of us who work, work here are like their parents here. And, and I would say as a therapist, that's another special challenge to navigate is, you know, when you're a therapist in your own world.
[00:10:06] You're not running into your clients everywhere, per se. And because our family lives on campus that means a student I might see might also be doing boxing lessons with my husband, might also run into my child and see how I parent in the cafeteria and coming from the us That's so uncomfortable for me at times.
[00:10:24] Kym: it's like super immersive, just like, yeah.
[00:10:27] Jen Kantor: The boundaries are hard. Yeah.
[00:10:28] Kym: Yeah, I bet. So your job is. You know, I'm hearing you say over and over, it's not like your traditional like therapist role. So is it more like, like, we're doing case management, we're helping think about college, we're like, you know, helping with coping skills in like a school setting, like dealing with other kids, like maybe the, the girls are gossipy like Is it that kind of stuff? Or like what, what type of stuff are you doing with them?
[00:10:51] Jen Kantor: So, yeah, I would say while I was in Brazil it was more of, okay, we want you to talk to this kid about which. Junior and senior courses they should take on their way to college, to which I felt, are you sure you want me to do that? I don't, that's not really my background and expertise, but I'll give it a shot.
[00:11:08] Versus my present role which is way more ongoing mental health support. And of course, as I said, I'm, I'm careful kind of how I write notes, et cetera, because I, I can't say that I am. Practicing as a licensed clinician here. And at the same time, I would say I'm definitely therapeutically supporting a number of the same students on a weekly basis.
[00:11:31] Whether it's about the gossipy girls or whether it's about case management. Like, oh, you need a morning after pill. Okay, let me, work with the health center and support you in that way. And what's nice about our health center? Is that even though we are in the school, we work for the school, we have our own healthcare management platform, so the students know that if they don't want the teachers or the administrators to know something we won't share that with them.
[00:11:55] So we are allowed to practice in a confidential way, which hopefully increases the young people's trust in us.
[00:12:01] Kym: Nice. Gosh, I just have so many questions. Okay. So you mentioned like a recruiting process. So I guess you said there's websites, so somebody would go to these websites and then just, I guess they have applications for different schools or something all over the world, and you just. Put your credential, send a resume or whatever, and then they just start interviewing if you're appropriate for it.
[00:12:20] Jen Kantor: Definitely, I mean, I think. You know, there's a lot of counseling positions that you see and depending on what you're open to and interested in, you know, you wanna look for more of like, what's titled an sel, social Emotional Learning counselor versus, you know, and, and obviously you'll read the job description.
[00:12:37] It, you see most of the counseling positions are college counselor. And that's obviously a whole different. Kind of world. And for some, they expect you to be able to do mental health and wellbeing, plus college counseling. And that is, that's a big ask. so I think,
[00:12:53] Kym: I don't think I could do that.
[00:12:55] Jen Kantor: yeah.
[00:12:55] Kym: like, I don't even know what all that would involve. It seems very complicated.
[00:12:59] Jen Kantor: Yes, it is. I'll say
[00:13:01] Kym: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:13:01] Jen Kantor: I did some of that in my last role. And I found it a challenge just because I felt like for me, of course, being in my field, you know, I felt like, well, mental health is way more important and we're not gonna bring up college when the students having a meltdown about their future.
[00:13:14] Like, that's not. Right time to talk about that. and yeah, you, I can sort of say these, some of these different websites. I actually found both of my jobs through search Associates, which also has a hiring fair. so for my second position internationally, I went to the hiring fair in Boston from Brazil. And I got this position here and I feel really great to be living in switzerland.
[00:13:39] Kym: So how many international schools are there in the world? there's like a hub in Switzerland and Brazil and a couple of major places? Or are they like, hundreds and hundreds of these things?
[00:13:48] Jen Kantor: Oh, yeah. Hundreds if, if not thousands.
[00:13:51] Kym: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:13:52] Jen Kantor: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:53] Kym: like how many positions like this, are there a different job? Are you the only one? Or does it, I guess it depends on how many students and that sort of thing.
[00:13:59] Jen Kantor: I, I will say that just. You know, I, I certainly have a lot of peers and colleagues who've been in this game a lot longer than me and can speak more to this. But I will say in my time the amount of times I've seen a specific position like this listed where I just really get to focus on mental health are more rare.
[00:14:18] But at, at my school, I have one colleague that is also a, you know, full-time and he's a licensed professional counselor also from the us. So. When should someone like, want to start this recruiting process? You know, obviously the, pros are whether you're single or with a family, but in some of these places, you know, you can easily live on one income.
[00:14:37] And housing's provided. And in my case, 'cause I'm at boarding school, food, all food is provided.
[00:14:42] Kym: Oh my gosh. There's like literally no expenses except for if you wanna go do things outside of the Yeah,
[00:14:49] Jen Kantor: Unless you have kids that need aftercare or daycare, things like that. But otherwise no. So for the recruiting process it helps if you have had some experience in schools. If you have experience internationally, because, you know, sometimes it happens that someone might move.
[00:15:06] I mean, I guess this can happen in any field where you move to a new country and you're like, I'm not really cut out for this. they don't want people who might not be in it for the long run. So if you have international experience and if you have some work in education, or school related, it's worth a shot because I, I definitely felt, when I began the process and I was reading the job descriptions, I thought, well, I haven't done that and I haven't really done that. And I worked in a school for 10 years, but I worked for public health.
[00:15:33] Kym: oh, right. Yeah. Right. So how does the licensee work? So you're licensed in, was it Washington? Did you say? Washington State. So you're licensed in Washington State. You had like a private practice for a while. I, I'm assuming you don't I'm guessing this is like a full-time thing. Like you wouldn't have a side practice or anything like that.
[00:15:49] Jen Kantor: Well, actually, I, I never had a private practice. I was working as a practitioner through Spring Health, which is.
[00:15:55] virtual. and I, I really loved that experience. I, I had to stop with them because they weren't able to allow people out of the country
[00:16:03] anymore. I loved working with them because that was some of my initial long-term work with adults.
[00:16:09] 'cause I'm very, you know, accustomed to teenagers. But I really, through that experience, I felt, it felt great. I, I loved working with a wider range of ages.
[00:16:18] Kym: Oh, so neat. Yeah. Spring Health, that's like an EAP company, right? Is that more EAP than traditional, like almar headway. Okay. Gotcha. So how does the licensing work? Like I know. in Brazil, maybe the regulations are different than in Switzerland, I'm guessing, for what you can and can't do.
[00:16:33] Or is it pretty similar? Like don't call yourself a therapist, don't treat people on our soil if you're not licensed, like however you get licensed in Brazil and Switzerland, I guess. Right? Is that
[00:16:43] Jen Kantor: believe so. I mean, I think, you know, from what I understand, and I'm learning more and more from your Facebook page, but as a Washington State clinician, I can only practice with Washington State residents. So, I keep up with my license, I do all my continuing education every year.
[00:16:59] Sometimes I, I ask like, would this count? You know, for example I was just meeting with another LCSW the other day who works at another international school in Switzerland. and she gave for like the sw there's a Swiss group of international schools. So we had a school counselor collaborative meeting and she sort of gave us our.
[00:17:17] Quick training on, suicide prevention and suicide protocols. And so in this case, of course, I wanna look into this and say, okay, can this count for these CEUs that I need for my, my licensure? 'cause we we're both you know, lcs ws. but I keep up with my license and I'm looking to, in part thanks to the resources that you offer.
[00:17:37] I'm looking. To maybe take on one or two private pay clients in Washington State, or I'm also looking into the process here in Switzerland. Like, I can practice if I get certain credentials, but I can't practice, you know, I just have to practice with whatever credentials they will allow me to have here.
[00:17:56] Kym: Yeah, that makes sense. Because, you know, it is, it does depend on the country because some clinicians, you know, they're licensed in a state, but they see lots of expats internationally, and you know, as long as the country they're in. Is okay with it because most of our licensing, and this is just education, for anybody listening, most of our licenses say you can practice under your license in your state of licensure, but there's no regulations around what you wanna do outside.
[00:18:20] You're just not gonna be protected by a license or by your liability insurance if you're doing it outside of, You know, your state of licensure, which is so interesting to me. So you have to like check with that country to see, is it okay if I see your citizens? You know, is there any regulations around that?
[00:18:36] And like you said, you know, Switzerland's got different rules and regulations around what that means than maybe Brazil does or maybe any other, all the countries are different, you know, some could care less like Mexico. I don't think there's any, I don't think they care at all of what you do. As long as you know, you're.
[00:18:51] Pay taxes appropriately if you're supposed to pay taxes there. So it gets super complicated, but. Yeah, so interesting. I think this is the coolest little niche. I really, I not little like, you know, minimizing or anything, but just the coolest thing. 'cause like you could probably just go anywhere now, especially with, you know, of course you wanna keep it stable for your kids and all that stuff, but gosh, you could be like, yeah, now let's go to China, or whatever, you know, whatever you wanted to do. That's so neat to me.
[00:19:17] Jen Kantor: Yeah. And I do, I do feel, because I took that initial leap to Brazil of course that helped me get the job most likely, you know, that helped me jump into this role because Of course they like to see that you have some international school experience. But I'm very thankful to that first school in Brazil for saying, okay, we, we see that you're never a traditional school counselor and have just done therapeutic work, but we will take a chance and hire you. And obviously that move to Brazil was very monumental in my life.
[00:19:45] Kym: Yes. Oh my God. Of course you met your husband and had another child. That's amazing.
[00:19:50] so you stayed in Brazil for five years and now you're in this place. How long have you been in the one in Switzerland?
[00:19:55] Jen Kantor: This is, um, we're coming to the end of our second year. And some of the considerations just for, for anyone listening, in our situation, for example, we have a, our boarding school is for students or people seventh to 12th grade. So when we came here, my daughter was in fifth grade. so that meant she needed to attend the local school and that was in French.
[00:20:19] And so just keeping in mind, depending where you go doing your research, about how will the local school be, you know, because if you'll be working with the school, you won't have time necessarily to homeschool or those kind of things. the pros of that time are that she learned French as she already had Portuguese, it was easier for her.
[00:20:39] And you know, they of, of course you can imagine in a small Swiss village there are certain. Differences about, like, views on education and things like that. And my daughter will soon start attending the school where I work now this coming August and that feels really great. I, I would say in terms of another perk to, to weigh if you're considering this kind of a leap, is that, you know, it's not usually just that they provide housing and it's not usually just that they provide flight to and from your home of origin.
[00:21:08] But this school, which as a Swiss boarding school is fairly expensive for most people. usually your child can attend almost for free.
[00:21:16] Kym: that's amazing. Wow. And I'm sure it's like top-notch education. I'm guessing it's gotta be pretty great.
[00:21:22] Jen Kantor: Yeah. I mean, I think besides the fact that we have some great teachers, just the opportunities of, oh, this weekend, you know, we're, we're doing a fashion trip to Milan, or we're doing. You know, a quick hop over to Shaman France for the day, or because we're, we're so centrally located, so, you know, for a lot of our students coming from South America or Saudi Arabia it's fun to be so central, in Europe and so quick to go to some very cool places. Cool. Safe.
[00:21:51] Kym: do you go, do you get to go too, are you like part of the field trip or
[00:21:54] Jen Kantor: a lot of our staff, I, I can, I'm not always able to 'cause of family responsibilities, but staff, yes, staff get paid to go to, you know, Italy for the weekend and chaperone.
[00:22:06] Kym: That is amazing. Oh my gosh. this episode is gonna blow up. You're gonna be like, people are gonna be applying for jobs everywhere. this is so cool. This is the first time I've ever had a guest on that's even talked about this, so it's really interesting to me. Yeah, so neat.
[00:22:19] Jen Kantor: one other thing that, You know, I suppose anyone in private practice is already working with a particular bracket of people. I, I would imagine, and I think for me, one major consideration that I've just worked through over time is leaving the population that I worked with in Seattle.
[00:22:36] Where a lot of the students, you know, young people or my clients didn't have access to resources otherwise. And so it is an interesting shift when you begin working with the opposite end of the bracket. And it, I, I would say it took me some time to adjust to that. Took me some time to adjust to, you know, my take on affluent neglect and how that impacts young people and, when you're coming from just the, the opposite world of, oh wow, you didn't eat yesterday. So that's our first item is getting you some food.
[00:23:11] Kym: somehow. Yeah.
[00:23:12] Jen Kantor: Or let's make sure you have somewhere to go after school. to here, which is of course, you know, just a very different world. And I think I'm getting more mature, hopefully, but it used to kind of bother me when people would be like, well, you know, mental health is mental health and, you know, everyone suffers and it just looks different depending your bracket.
[00:23:31] And I would just think, yeah, but if you're homeless, it's totally different.
[00:23:34] Kym: different. It's
[00:23:35] Jen Kantor: It's way worse. Um, But I, I will say that like working with the young people that I do here, i, you know, this is year seven, so hopefully I do, but I, I do love it. I really love it. And just, just the ability, I mean, I, I have always loved working with young people because I think it feels so much more hopeful sometimes than with adults, because adults, depending on their age, I'm not saying I'm cynical, but you can have a feeling of like, oh, it's so hard for adults to, change something.
[00:24:04] And I speaking. As an adult who finds it hard to change things versus with, with teenagers, they're still just so like, open and willing to examine and say, okay, well here's what's going on. And listen to your perspective, especially when they're in boarding school, you know, away from everything.
[00:24:21] Kym: Yeah. In this term affluent neglect. That's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, because I've thought about that. You know, you hear about kids that go to boarding school their whole lives. does. And as, and the therapist at me, it's like, gosh, I dunno. Send your kids away forever. You see 'em like at Christmas and they start when they're like six.
[00:24:38] Like, I don't get this. Like, it just seems totally counterintuitive to what I know of like, people being parents and having their kids with them all the time. It just, that's such an interesting dynamic. Yeah, I feel like you could write a whole thing about that. You probably have, I don't know about how to, how to help people. Cope with that. I mean, I guess you develop, like you said, your own family within the sporting school system with the therapist and the teachers and the people that live on campus and everything. But that, that's always been a really concept to me.
[00:25:06] Jen Kantor: Yeah. And there are there are boarding schools in Switzerland that take very young children. and we take only start from 12 and even 12 Seems very young to be
[00:25:16] Kym: It seems like it kind of breaks my heart a little bit, but I mean, everybody's seen like a movie, you know, where it's like the kids in boarding school and his dad's, you know. Golfing internationally and he's too busy to come home for Christmas and the kids sitting in boarding school, I'd be like, gosh, that stuff really, Ooh. Even though you know they're rich and it's like, not okay, well you're rich still. But it's, it seems awful to me. Yeah. I dunno. I think
[00:25:37] Jen Kantor: Yeah,
[00:25:37] Kym: as a therapist to, to help them cope with that.
[00:25:39] Jen Kantor: I mean, of course it really depends. Like we, we have some students here who, depending on their age and stage, they might say, you know, it just looked like such a cool opportunity. I researched it, I talked my parents into it. They said I could come for the year. Or other students who might have scholarships who were like, I worked really hard to get here, and they're older, tend to be older students, and here I am.
[00:26:00] I'm so. Fortunate for this opportunity. And, you know, that's just very different from students who've just been in boarding school for so long. And sometimes you have the feeling and of course as, as a parent who is in the trenches and has been in the trenches of parenting, of course you think, oh yeah, sure, that would be really easy to just send your kids away.
[00:26:22] But, but otherwise, you know, like, it, it is hard for me to imagine. It's hard for me to imagine what that is. And you know, in case any of my clients' parents ever find me and are listening to me say this, you know, I wanna make the caveat like. what we all know as therapists, which is that obviously we're all doing the best we can with the tools we have and, and we make the best decisions based on what we believe is best for our children.
[00:26:46] And I think that's been another interesting thing and I'm trying to say that in a diplomatic way, but. You know, as we've seen in different cultures where, for example in Brazil where physical appearance and especially in certain brackets is, is just so important. So there were stories of 11 year olds who would have mom take them for cellulite treatment.
[00:27:07] that would be an example of. I'm doing this for you because you will go further if you are perceived as beautiful, and once you're perceived as beautiful, you'll have more chance at success in life. and I think that a lot of our parents, depending on the background or country, the the thought is if you can solidify your English and go to boarding school in Switzerland, that's gonna get you these other opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise have.
[00:27:33] Kym: Yeah, I, yeah, I mean, I could totally see the other side of it too, from the para perspective. It's like, let me send you to this really elite school where you're gonna get top-notch education international exposure like thing. I'm, I'm busy working, you know, and, and this is going to like, really give you that well-rounded lifestyle and, You know, I don't know what you would call it, like basis for the rest of your life. know, develop you as a human with all of this international exposure. Like I could totally see the parrot side of it too, the other side of it that helps you make that decision. You know, it's like I have the means and this is an amazing opportunity.
[00:28:04] and the, the different issues that would come up. 'cause I was reading somebody's Facebook the other day and he was like, he did a blog post about how he became a therapist to like the rich and famous basically in New York City.
[00:28:16] And, you know, His like biases and how he had to adapt and, understand how to treat that population and shift from like, okay, you're not homeless, like wa, you know, like that kind of thing. to be, you know, awful about it. But, but that's what he was saying in the blog post and I was like, this is such an interesting dynamic and how he had to adapt and realize that there's a whole other thing that goes on, like when you have all that money and you know. You don't want people to know you have the money you, you like your social circle becomes very small because you only wanna socialize with people that are in the same sort of bracket. Like it's a whole thing. And I was like, this is such an interesting dynamic and hearing you talk about this, it's making me think about it too.
[00:28:54] Jen Kantor: Yeah. And I, I think especially with, teenagers, 'cause we know teenagers. Are all just trying to find themselves. And so, you know, we, we certainly have those students who might not want others to know who their parents are or what company the family owns. And then of course there's a whole other group of kids and we all knew these kids in high school as well, who are all about the brand names and all about flaunting wealth.
[00:29:18] And it's a real challenge. You know, for example, like my child. Will come to this school and we are modest people and you know, we, we won't be spending thousands of dollars on designer clothes. That's not gonna be what we do. And so she will have to navigate, you know, her peers being extremely more wealthy than she is.
[00:29:39] And, you know, of course when we have, when I have the chance to have those conversations with her, I remind her, like, let's look at how fortunate we are. let's look at this from the big picture, but of course when you're a preteen or teen, your parents, it's just like, blah, blah, blah.
[00:29:51] You know what? What are you talking about? Because I still want the latest, latest, this and that.
[00:29:55] Kym: Yeah. And this is like next level, like for me it was like, guest jeans, you know? I mean, these kids probably have just crazy, like a hundred thousand dollars I would imagine, like bags or, jackets or, you know, just like, oh my gosh, I couldn't even imagine.
[00:30:08] Jen Kantor: That's right. And, and it's really interesting and, and of course another world for me when I hear the students sort of describing to me like. So-and-so's clearly very new wealth, new money
[00:30:18] Kym: Oh my gosh.
[00:30:20] Jen Kantor: Which is just very, you know, it's, it's fa it's fascinating to me to Okay, what,
[00:30:25] Kym: gosh. Yeah. How do you know?
[00:30:29] Jen Kantor: yeah, it's, it's really interesting and, I will say, you know, I, I keep saying, but it's, it's really true. Like I, I love the school where I am and, and I love the population and I, I've, I've had to just lean into the discomfort of. Everybody can see my whole life. I don't have any boundaries. I can't say, you know, if sudden somebody asks me a question like, about my personal life, which typically as therapists we make the call of, is this appropriate to share with you?
[00:30:53] Will this be beneficial to you? And my favorite, like therapist quote that guides me in everything in life is Irvin Yalom. You know, it's the relationship that heals. And so, so I always go from that of like, is this relevant information for you? Will this benefit our relationship for me to say something personal about myself?
[00:31:11] But I, I don't even have that option to keep my life personal. But I will say like, you know, I have a biracial family and I, I will say that for like the students of color that I work with I do believe it really matters to them when they see who my family is. I, I think it, it makes a difference that they, I.
[00:31:28] Might have a sense that, you know, hopefully they have a sense that I care anyway when they're talking about injustice or microaggressions or things like that. But my hope and, and my belief is that they also feel like you might get it a little bit more than the average white person.
[00:31:45] So in that way, like having my family and life on display, while it feels very strange to me. I just have to get used to it, like it is what my life is and
[00:31:54] Kym: Wow, that's so cool. And did I hear you say that your husband also works? I heard you say boxing with my husband, you know, does, does he also work in the school system or is he like ancillary to it?
[00:32:06] Jen Kantor: Well, something that just, it worked out really fortunately for us, and he hadn't worked in a school prior, but he's kind of a jack of all trades and can do everything. And he is also a master IT guy and they happen to need an IT
[00:32:19] Oh person. So, yeah, he's a systems manager with the IT department and that worked out so well for us because again you know, usually if like.
[00:32:28] If you are a couple, if you're a part of a couple, then of course you wanna get a job at the same school. so to find a job, you know, for teachers it's usually easier. They're like, oh, math teacher, English teacher, boom, they're looking for these two positions and we are those. But when you're in more niche, like I'm looking for a school counselor job, it's not really a school counselor per se.
[00:32:47] And also at the same time to have an opening in the IT department. It just, it all felt very serendipitous. But I will say in the international schools, and I think this can be a blessing and a curse. So for example, if you are part of a couple looking for a job and say that you find this unicorn position of counselor focusing more on mental health and wellbeing or director of wellbeing type positions, if they don't have quite the right position for your partner.
[00:33:15] Depending on the school, many times they will try to work with you and say, ah, well, does your partner have any experience with books? 'cause maybe we have a library assistant
[00:33:25] Kym: wow.
[00:33:26] Jen Kantor: or it can be a little bit random, but Generally, depending on the school they wanna keep you. so they know that like if it's not a good fit for the family or the couple, you're not gonna stay very long.
[00:33:36] they do make efforts and the position my husband has has now wasn't quite opened up before we came. So, so it did work out. And in my school in particular, this is different of course in every school, but because we're a boarding school, so we have just. Activities nonstop. So if there were a couple, one got the school counselor position and the other one there wasn't a position four, it would be like, well, what do you like?
[00:33:59] What can you teach after school? What trips can you take the students on? Are you willing, you know, it can easily become your whole life. And I think when you live on a boarding school campus, like the work life balance is, is can be challenging to separate. But that said, I do think it's, it's, I mean, it happened for me. So I think it's very possible for people to find a good fit for their family.
[00:34:23] Kym: That's so neat. even if you can't, I would imagine like much everything's paid for anyway, so I mean, the other one may not need to work or be with the kids or homeschool or, I mean, there's probably options that way too.
[00:34:34] Jen Kantor: Definitely.
[00:34:35] Kym: that's incredible. I love this.
[00:34:37] Jen Kantor: Thank you. I love it too. I feel, I feel very lucky.
[00:34:40] Kym: this is like super personal. You don't have to answer this, but like what kind of salary range are we talking? Are we talking like lower end or like higher? Like just 'cause I'm, I'm sure people are wondering like, well how much can you actually make doing this with all this stuff already included, you know?
[00:34:55] Jen Kantor: I'll say, it's hard to answer that question because for example, in Brazil housing was covered. I. Like water, electricity, et cetera. That was covered. Utilities. Utilities that was covered even like part of your phone bill was covered, health insurance was covered.
[00:35:09] And then your monthly salary was in Haas, which is the currency there. And so because of the volatility of the market and specifically the volatility of that currency. They would want to give you incentives. So for example, if, if you are a family who. Comes to Brazil and you have a kid in college or a mortgage payment back in the US or anything like that, but your monthly payment is hay eyes.
[00:35:35] You might not be able to cover that. So at that school in particular, they would start the year off depending on the year, but like a 20 k bonus. And then for the rest of the year, you'd be paid in hay eyes and your expenses would be covered. So if you are uber frugal, your savings potential could be pretty good if you don't have any other expenses.
[00:35:55] Now I'm in a unique position here in Switzerland because there's a lot of schools in Europe that don't necessarily offer housing because the, the cost of living is just higher. not to say that they never do, but just to say, when people are looking to stack their wealth, they might go to South America first, or Asia or the Middle East.
[00:36:14] You know, you can do really well in places like Dubai and Thailand and the savings potential is I. Significant when everything's factored in, in my particular school, because everything is covered. So if you look at my monthly paycheck, you know, after daycare, you would think, okay, you know, this is not like necessarily gonna buy your millionaire retirement home.
[00:36:34] But I, I think in the, in the moment and considering so many factors, saving an astronomical amount of money is less high on our list than job satisfaction and life satisfaction. You know, we live in the Alps
[00:36:48] Kym: yeah, yeah.
[00:36:49] Jen Kantor: and
[00:36:50] Kym: It must be gorgeous there.
[00:36:51] Jen Kantor: it's, it's gorgeous. And like for our kids, what, what they do for PE and the winter is skiing.
[00:36:57] That's the pe. Yes
[00:36:59] Kym: That's incredible. Oh my gosh,
[00:37:02] Jen Kantor: it is. It's so cool.
[00:37:06] Kym: is so cool.
[00:37:07] Jen Kantor: So, yeah, in terms of range, I'm never very good at that kind of thing, but, but I, I'm in a, I'm in a Facebook group that's specifically focuses on like, finances for expats, specifically who work in international schools. And so from what I read, like a teaching couple in Dubai has the earning potential to like save 60 KA year.
[00:37:26] That's an example. I wouldn't say it's as high, you know, in my position, but, but most people wouldn't expect that in Europe.
[00:37:32] Kym: That's neat. And the, in the city, you're the town you're in. Is it just a little cute town in Switzerland, like with, I mean, literally like those picturesque things you see when you think of Switzerland? Is that what it looks like there?
[00:37:43] Jen Kantor: it is like a postcard. I will say that like where I am in particular if you are just like a young person who loves to get out all the time, you might go a little stir crazy, like on the mountain. And there's plenty of like single people here, people without kids, and when they're off on weekends, they just take off wherever they want.
[00:37:59] 'cause we're, we're very, you know, we're like maybe 45 minute drive from. Just over the border in France and like an hour and a half from Italy and then, you know, a quick train to Geneva or Zurich or, you know.
[00:38:14] Kym: How fun do you guys, is that what you guys do like on your weekends and stuff? Are you like, let's go here, let's go here? Or is it just like, you're living at home and it's like, well, maybe we'll take a vacation in like a, like six months or something?
[00:38:25] Jen Kantor: Um, we, we try when we can, you know, we have like different, you know, because, because we live here, so like my daughter has. Dance class and this and that. So, we aren't so footloose and fancy free all the time. And, and I will say this is not the case in every boarding school, but in my boarding school one thing to consider if anyone's looking into this is that we, I am on call 24 7 every third week.
[00:38:47] Kym: Oh, okay.
[00:38:48] Jen Kantor: So what that means is if a student is not, well, if a student is having a panic attack, if a student is feeling like they don't wanna be in the world. I'm on call, so that means every third week I'm not going anywhere. But because I have also a 4-year-old, and you know, I think when she's older, we'll probably do more.
[00:39:06] But, but at the moment, I mean, we get out there, you know, we definitely are like, oh, let's take a day trip to France and let's like last spring break, we just hopped over to Lake Como because it's pretty relatively close. And like easy jet flights from Geneva are just, you know, cheap.
[00:39:23] Kym: Wow. And do you, do you have summers off or is it year round school?
[00:39:27] Jen Kantor: Oh, that's one of the best things. That is just one of the best things is like,
[00:39:31] Kym: me you have summers off.
[00:39:33] Jen Kantor: yeah, I mean, I basically like, I'll finish beginning of June and school won't start till the end of August. Like I'll need to be back like Midgut. But, but also we have like I almost a month at Christmas too.
[00:39:45] Kym: That is incredible. But you could stay in your housing the whole time, right? You don't have to like leave or do you?
[00:39:50] Jen Kantor: Uh, Yeah, I, we can stay in our housing.
[00:39:52] Kym: That is so cool.
[00:39:54] Jen Kantor: it's cool.
[00:39:55] Kym: Oh my God. I am in love with your life. It's
[00:39:59] Jen Kantor: you, Kim. I, I feel great about my life. I feel so,
[00:40:02] Kym: you found such a neat niche. It's incredible. Oh my goodness. Ah, well, I could go on and on. I'm supposed to keep these short and I feel like we've gone way longer than I'm supposed to go with these.
[00:40:13] But thank you so much for sharing all this. Super interesting, how do people reach out to you if they want to talk to you about this or. I
[00:40:20] Jen Kantor: I'm working on a website 'cause as I said, I hope to take on one or two personal clients. But I, I'll be happy to give you my personal email address that you can include in the show notes and if people have questions they can reach out. And I'd be happy to share because I, you know, when I think back to my one friend who's, who's also a school counselor and, and can do therapeutic work, who just said to me like, no, you look out there because they are looking for you.
[00:40:43] I'm so thankful to her because I just kept thinking like, I don't wanna be a school counselor, like. That's not interesting to me. And, and I've been just really fortunate to get to do what I love and, you know, especially where I am now. I, I'm thankful, so I'm happy to talk to anyone who wants to reach out and chat more.
[00:41:00] Kym: Thank you. Thanks so much for being here.