Do you feel like you’re working nonstop but still not getting ahead financially? In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I chat with Maren Londahl-Smidt about how financial coaching can change your practice and help you actually enjoy the money you’re earning. Maren shares how she moved from burnout to a balanced lifestyle and built a business that lets her travel, show horses, and coach therapists on their money systems.
We dig into Profit for Keeps, reverse engineering your income, and how to finally make your numbers work for you. Whether you’re drowning in business expenses or dreaming of taking more time off, this episode is packed with clarity and practical tips for taking control of your finances.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Maren:
Website - https://www.balanceandbeyondcoaching.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/balanceandbeyondcoaching
Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/pfkprofitableclinician
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BalanceandBeyondCoaching
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple iTunes | Spotify | Google Podcast | Stitcher | Amazon | Castbox
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist podcast. I'm excited to have our guest today. She is doing a ton of cool stuff, and I cannot wait to tell you all about her, but Maren Londahl-Smidt. I always butcher everybody's names. You guys know this about me, is here with us today.
[00:00:16] Marin, can you please correct your name if I pronounced it incorrectly, and also
[00:00:21] Maren: You actually did great. You, you got spot on, so I am very impressed. So.
[00:00:28] Kym: Can you tell everybody how you went from just being a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:34] Maren: Yes. So, I will make this as short and sweet as I can. So I was working in a healthcare system during the pandemic and I was in a doctor's office embedded there doing brief therapy and working multiple jobs. I was still doing PRN work for the ER that I used to work at, and I knew that I wanted something more and to live that life, there was no way that I would be able to do that with what I was doing.
[00:01:00] I couldn't just have one job, and so that took me to private practice and then love doing my one-on work. I'm still a practicing therapist and love it, but I knew there was something more and I wanted, I love to travel, you know, it was just one of those things, kind of my why really is, you know, and I think that's what we all have to figure out is where's this coming from? You know, what excites us? And I needed something more that excited me. And so that's whenever I branched into the coaching side as well.
[00:01:29] Kym: So cool. So tell us about the coaching side. First I wanna know like, how did you get into this niche that we don't, they don't know what your niche is yet, but let's talk about that because that's not typically something therapists do anyway, like dealing with numbers and all of that stuff.
[00:01:43] So, let's tell 'em what you do and then I'd love to hear like the, backstory, like how did you even fall into this niche? 'cause it's super interesting really.
[00:01:52] Maren: Yeah, so you're right. There's not a whole lot of us. We are kind of a very small pocket of us that like money and are therapists. Money and emotions and really a lot of it comes from my own story. And so I'd always kind of liked numbers. So my story was when I went from my W2 job to full-time private practice, I had no idea how to pay myself.
[00:02:15] I didn't know how to set stuff, what I need to set aside for taxes. I didn't know how much to actually pay myself. I didn't know what I needed to make, my business needed to bring in to hit my income goals. So I did a lot of my own personal work and I went through YNAB Coaching, which is also called You Need a Budget. It was awesome. I loved it, but it only focused on the personal side, and so it didn't bring the business in.
[00:02:39] And then I did some other coaching that focused on the business side, but did not bring in the personal side. And so that's where everything really came together. And I was actually doing, one-on-one coaching with Patrick Asal, and we had four sessions and in our four session, and he said, so what do you wanna talk about today? I said, I had nothing planned. And I go, let's talk about alternate streams of income. And so that's where we identified coaching and to really focus on the financial piece and how can therapists actually be profitable.
[00:03:11] And at that point it was, do I develop my own program or do I get certified in something that's already proven already out there and I know works? And that's where I came across Profit For Keeps. And Amber Duggar is the founder of that. She's also a profit first professional. I went through it as a client first, and within my first couple days I said, oh my gosh, this is the messy piece. Now I know what needs to happen for me to meet these goals, versus I'm just working to work because I know I wanna do these things, but I don't know how to actually get there.
[00:03:44] Kym: So you went through the course. What did you have in mind? Like, I'm going through the course so then I can then teach this course to other therapists, or was it like, I'm just gonna go through this course and see what happens.
[00:03:53] Maren: Well, kind of twofold because I knew I wanted do something with coaching, but I wasn't quite sure what the commitment, because it is the, it took me, it's gonna take me about a year. So I'm still in my certification process and so I'm one of the certification candidates and I'm actually the first therapist that will be bringing it to our world.
[00:04:12] So there's no other therapists that are actually using this and able to coach with it right now, which is really exciting. So whenever we talked I said, oh gosh, that sounds great, but that's a really big commitment. So I decided, lemme get through it first as a client to really experience this and see what it's about. And within. A week max. I already knew. I said, okay, yeah, this is, this is what's missing. I know if I need this. There has to be so many other people that need it as well.
[00:04:40] Kym: Absolutely. I mean, therapist, oh my gosh. Notoriously like, it's like, Hey, I'm just gonna help people and I have no idea actually what I'm doing at all.
[00:04:48] Maren: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, because we can, we need to give ourself permission to be profitable. 'cause if we don't take care of ourself, our nervous system is gonna be constantly in reaction mode and we can't take care of our people.
[00:05:01] Kym: so true. So tell us like an overview of profit for Keeps, for somebody that's never heard of it. Maybe you can just give a little overview of what it is and how it works and all that stuff. There's probably a lot to it.
[00:05:11] Maren: Well, it's interesting because it's actually, there is a lot to it, but it's very simple. And so really what we're doing is we're starting out and figuring out what do you want your money to do? Our money is meant to be used, we want to enjoy it, you know, so yeah, we could have five years of savings in the bank and we never do anything but.
[00:05:30] We're not enjoying our money at that point. And so that's really what the base of it is. And what we're doing is we're reverse engineering our revenue goal. So the first thing we're doing is we're getting very specific, not just saying, oh, I need to make $8,000 a month, or whatever that is. We're saying we need to make $8,342 and 51 cents, and we know every expense that we need and.
[00:05:55] Expenses that we don't even think about. You know, car tires, our health insurance deductible, whatever that might be. And we start with a personal first. So we know what our business needs to do, and then we move into our business expenses because they're not quite as personal and not as many emotions tied to it.
[00:06:12] We get really stuck in our personal expenses, and then we're also working on a, you know, whatever that plan is. Are we in debt? You know, how do we stay ahead versus constantly being on that credit card game. And then at the end, we actually have very specific percentages. So every time I get something hits my bank account, I know exactly what I need to pay myself.
[00:06:36] I know exactly what needs to go to my tax account, I know what to put aside for business expenses. And then the other one is the profit account. And so that's, you know, once a quarter, you're doing great work in your business, part of it it's your emergency fund and just really figuring out this is your bonus, what do you wanna do with it? We don't get bonuses when we work for ourself.
[00:06:56] Kym: No. We should. It sounds like you, you factor that in. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:01] Maren: And actually tomorrow is profit distribution day, which I didn't realize.
[00:07:05] Kym: Ooh,
[00:07:05] Maren: Yeah. So tomorrow's quarterly distribution day, which is one of my favorite days of the year. 'cause I actually get to see what it's doing.
[00:07:14] Kym: Is that like every quarter you just look back at what your earnings were the last quarter and then you've got a percentage already set aside, like whatever it was. This is what my like dividend or I don't know what you call it, distribution will be
[00:07:24] Maren: Yeah. So what I do, the cool thing about Profit For Keeps is that you don't need all these different bank accounts. So we're actually YNAB, you need a budget. That's our dashboard. Every time I get paid, I move money to that account. And so then tomorrow on profit distribution day, I know exactly where it needs to go.
[00:07:47] Part of it stays there for my emergency fund with my business. So let's say I broke my ankle and I couldn't walk or go anywhere. I need to know that my business can still stay afloat. And then the other part goes to me personally, and then I figure out, hey, do I wanna save for that trip? Do I wanna go on that retreat? Do I wanna do this thing with my family? Whatever that might be.
[00:08:07] Kym: And how far out do you decide that with this model? Like, do you say, I wanna go on two retreats next year, and then it's like an annual kind of review thing? Or how, how far out do you plan these things?
[00:08:18] Maren: Yeah, I think it kind of depends on the person, honestly. You know, because I know people that once a year they sit down and they plan their business, their personal, and they really lay it out. I'm somebody that I kind of go with energy, so I know a lot of what my goals are and what I wanna do, but I also have flexibility in it, and I think that's what's so important is we can have flexibility.
[00:08:40] So let's say we got invited on this trip. Actually, I'll give you a great example. A friend of mine, her 40th birthday was a couple years ago and she went to Cabo and that somebody else was supposed to come with her and didn't get her passport in time. So she calls me three or four days before and says, Hey, if you get your flight, I already have everything taken care of. Of course I'm gonna make that happen.
[00:09:03] Kym: Yeah.
[00:09:04] Maren: I'll get my flight, and it was one of the best trips I had. But if I didn't have the money, I would've just gone in credit card debt. So then I can look at that and say, you know what, I've actually been let's say saving to renovate my kitchen or for a down payment for a house, but I can take that and say, you know what? I'm gonna shift it because right now this is really important to me. And then I'm gonna come back to rebuilding that.
[00:09:28] Kym: So it doesn't have to be so rigid. It's responsible and it's forward looking, but it doesn't have to be so rigid. It's not like I can't take outta this pot if it's something that comes up that's super important to me.
[00:09:38] Maren: Yeah, exactly. And that's the same thing with our budget and how it works in YNAB now is, you know, I'll look at something and I might say, I have a category for eating out but I really want to go to this concert that's happening. And I can't do both of 'em, so which one's more important to me?
[00:09:57] So I can pull money from going to eat out to the concert fund, and that just means I can't eat out as much. And that doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just saying, this is what's most important to me right now.
[00:10:07] Kym: Yeah. That is really great. so for the traveling therapist listening, what's a simple money step that they can take just even this week to feel more secure and organized in their money systems? Do you have like a tip for that, just to kind of get them started?
[00:10:22] Maren: Yes. Well, I think my number one thing, and this is what I always tell people, is we wanna have a cash flow system in place to organize. Because if we're just going in and flying and I, I don't know what I have, you know, we need to start somewhere. Profit for Keeps is a cash flow system, and what it is saying is what is going in and out of your bank account for both your business and your personal.
[00:10:45] We can have the best business system in place. But that's not connecting to our personal. And so if we don't have that, we want 'em to connect so we can do the things in our personal life. So let's say you wanna go live in Costa Rica for six months. You know, I actually just heard somebody tell me that not too long ago, and you can do that.
[00:11:05] But we wanna figure out how do we organize our cash flow and what's actually in our bank account so we can make that happen. and if we have too many, it gets tricky because it's overcomplicating 'em. And so if we have we're doing this or doing this and doing this, then we just shut down and we don't do it at all.
[00:11:25] Kym: Yeah. Gotcha. Are there some expense categories that you can't touch versus ones that are a little more flexible? Is there like rules around it
[00:11:34] Maren: I would say really no. I mean, our tax category, we don't want to touch that, but, well, actually, no, I'm gonna take a step back. They're our profit account, so I have the profit, you know, so today I have a profit account that I'm putting money in, and then I have a profit account that I'm holding there.
[00:11:54] So that's my emergency fund for my business. And so let's say that something happens and I can't work for a month or two. That's where I would look at that and say, okay, this is here, so I know that I'm gonna be okay. I know that if something happens, I've already planned for it. And so I really tried not to touch that category if all possible.
[00:12:17] Kym: Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. The question I get all the time from traveling therapists is like one, they're like, how the heck are you doing this? Like, I can't even figure out how to get my head above water to be able to like
[00:12:28] get organized enough to do this. But I just wonder, do you have like strategies, tips, thoughts around. You know, somebody that wants to prioritize travel and how do they prioritize it within the system to make sure that they're able to like kind of live that lifestyle do you have strategies, tips around that?
[00:12:46] Maren: Absolutely. So I think the thing that I love about the system is it's saying we need to be profitable first. So we need to make ourself a priority and give ourself permission to make money. It is okay to be profitable as a therapist, and when we do that, we can really lean into having a sustainable business. I know people do it. They see 30 plus clients a week. I can't do that. That's not sustainable for me. I'm going to burn out really, really fast.
[00:13:17] And so I think, you know, just really saying, I need to prioritize myself first, and I need to make it a priority of paying myself. So what we need to do is we need to connect your business with your personal life.
[00:13:30] To really figure out what does that look like? what does your business actually need to bring in for you to be able to travel like this? And I don't care if that's $10 a month or $10 million a month. I'm not here to judge that. But we wanna get real with actually what's happening and what you're working towards.
[00:13:47] Kym: I love that. I preach it, you know, it's like, let's just make this a category of money is going towards this, even if I can't go to Starbucks or whatever, you know? 'cause people wanna do it so much and they, they can't in a lot of ways. I mean, they can, they think they can't, I guess I should put it that way.
[00:14:03] Maren: Yes. yeah. Well, we think we can, but then when we look at it, you know, I actually did one of my blueprint sessions with somebody a couple weeks ago, and she said to me, and she had this aha moment, and she goes, this is why I can never get ahead. Because she didn't realize that her spending was not aligned with her business, so she was never ahead.
[00:14:26] And so it was just that moment of, oh, this is actually what I need to do to be able to get here. And it also lets us see if we want to travel, let's build that into our budget and our goals and figure out what do we need to do in our business for that to happen? Do we need an alternate stream of income?
[00:14:43] Do we need to, get off an insurance panel or you know, do something different. And there's no right or wrong in that, you know, it's your business and your values. It's just figuring out what you feel okay with.
[00:14:55] Kym: Yeah. And that mindset stuff, I mean, it's just like, it holds so many people back these rules and, you get stuck in these mindset ruts and you just can't get out of 'em. You know, that's why we need people like you to like shake it up and give a little clarity around your blueprint sessions and your coaching and all of that.
[00:15:11] So one thing I love that you talk about is the reverse engineering. Can we talk about that 'cause we talked about it before we hit record, but that's a key thing that I think almost every therapist just skips right over, you know, they just jump into, I gotta make money. But there's not a lot of thought process around like this reverse engineering concept. So I'd love if you could like explain that and how it works .
[00:15:33] Maren: Oh, absolutely. So actually I think this is one of the biggest pitfalls is we have generic revenue goals. You know, somebody says that they're charging X amount, so we need to charge that. And somebody says, well, this is my income goal. So we make that our income goal. Well, our life looks very different, our business looks very different, so we need to get very specific with our picture and figure out what that is.
[00:15:57] And so we start with the personal finances first, and that's really what we do. And we get really clear. So in our blueprint sessions, what we do is we really spend a lot of time on the personal finances to figure out, okay, what is this actually for us? What are we actually missing? Because I can just about guarantee, even if somebody has done budgeting before, I've never had a blueprint that they have everything that they need on there.
[00:16:25] Kym: Oh yeah, for i'm sitting here thinking like, what are all the things I would need to look at? Like if I really sat down and did something like that and what we're saying reverse it. It's like starting from I mean, I don't know what you call it or anything, but I, I would imagine it's like a lifestyle design kind of thing, like I wanna take eight weeks of vacation a year, and I don't wanna work when I'm a traveling therapist, I don't wanna be that type of traveling therapist.
[00:16:46] I just wanna be a therapist to travel. So I want eight weeks off. How can I make that work? Like starting from that vision and then like working backwards to, okay, that means I've gotta charge like $300 client or something.
[00:16:58] Maren: Exactly. So we need to get clear on where is the gap as well. So, you know, what do we want our money to do is one of the big things, that's number one. We want our money to bring us joy. We call it profit for joy is what it's actually called, And so, that's where we want our money to have intention behind it.
[00:17:17] 'cause if we wanna take eight weeks off a year, we need to be intentional about that. Plan for those eight weeks off a year, and maybe those eight weeks are traveling or maybe they're staying at home and you know, maybe it, when you travel, you wanna work or do retreats or whatever that might be.
[00:17:33] And I'm not here to judge that. It's just saying, what do we need to plan so we can make that happen? So we're not in reaction mode all the time. And then we get to, then we go on social media and see everybody else, well this person is doing this and they're doing that, and I wanna be there. You know, there's no way that I can get there. There is. We just have to figure out where the gaps are.
[00:17:54] Kym: Oh yeah. That's such good advice. So what does it look like if somebody calls you up or schedules a call with you for a blueprint session? Like what does that look like? Is it like a multi thing or maybe you just tell somebody what to expect if they were to do something like that? Because I feel like this is the missing part for a lot of therapists that just feels so stuck.
[00:18:11] Maren: It really is. When I came across the system, I knew immediately that this needed to be brought to our world, and it was just one of those moments I said, okay, this is what is missing. So what the process is, is I always do a call, a discovery call, or a strategy call with somebody because I wanna get clear and make sure this is right for you. I'm not somebody that, just because you come to my, I can't say door anymore. My zoom call.
[00:18:36] Kym: Virtual zoom room or
[00:18:38] Maren: Yeah, yeah. Whatever we wanna call it these days. So I'm not somebody that says, everybody that comes through has to do my program. I want you to be a really good fit for it. And I wanna get really clear on where your pain points are.
[00:18:51] Where are you struggling? You know, is it, I don't know what I need to make, or I'm always ahead, or I don't know how to make extra income. And I wanna see what your business looks like, what it's set up. I wanna get really clear on what support you actually need. And once we figure that out, and decide to move forward with Profit For Keeps, the first part is our financial blueprint and that's, you know, our finances are truly the foundation of our business.
[00:19:20] If we are not clear on that, more clients doesn't necessarily mean more money. And we think that a lot. What we need to look and say, what is, what's rocky here? What's shaky? And that's where the blueprint helps us figure out what's actually happening in our business. And then we start with our personal expenses and actually implement all the principles and get everything set up, and then after we get our personal set up, then we actually move on to the business.
[00:19:49] And then I want you to have confidence with it so you can continue to implement this on your own. I'm not here to say, I want you to be with me for 10 years. I want to get this in place and I want you on your way so you can do what you need to do in your business in life.
[00:20:04] Kym: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. That sounds so helpful.
[00:20:07] Maren: it's wonderful. I've seen it just be a game changer for so many people, and it truly is the missing piece, and we wanna get clear with our different expenses, you know, true expenses is what I like to call them. And those are your yearly expenses, but we don't save for them until we have that $700 car insurance due. And then we say, oh my gosh, I don't have it. So if we save for that on an ongoing basis, and that's part of the setup, so we're not hit with these surprises.
[00:20:36] Kym: tell us all the ways, I know we talked about it before, but you're traveling and incorporating, incorporating this coaching into traveling. Can you tell us how you're doing that? Just for people listening, if they're like, you know what, I've got a niche too. I could do something like this. Could you talk about that a little bit?
[00:20:50] Maren: Yeah, so I do a couple different things. I always tell people it depends on the day. So, uh, I lo I've started doing more speaking and so I'm actually going to Costa Rica in January and with Danielle. Lambert. And so we're super excited about that. And then we've got three of us that are gonna be there speaking, real life coaching, you know, we're gonna be doing intensive, so I love doing stuff like that.
[00:21:14] But when I do that, I also love to stay a little bit extra so I can actually enjoy my time. Not that I won't enjoy it the whole time, but if I'm gonna be in Costa Rica, I'm gonna be in Costa Rica.
[00:21:26] Kym: Yeah, you better have some days where you could actually just chill
[00:21:30] Maren: Yes, and I also, I'm a lifelong equestrian, so I ride into horses. I've taken a couple years off from it, so that's something that I'm getting back into. And so that actually has a good bit of travel with it, you know, whenever I'm showing, not necessarily internationally, but you know, the kind of couple states surrounding. And so that's something that's also really important to me.
[00:21:53] So I kind of, what I do with those is see, okay, is this something that I really wanna do now, when I was in my twenties, I was doing that a lot more and traveling, at least once or twice a month doing that. But I had to grow up and be an adult.
[00:22:06] Kym: Yeah, unfortunately.
[00:22:09] Maren: I know, I know. But I still, that's something that I enjoy doing and so. Whenever I look at the big picture, I think, okay, these are the things that are important to me that I actually wanna do, and this is how I wanna set it up. And even with my therapy clients, I don't want people that are in crisis and need me every single week because I don't want to be on vacation and get that phone call and have to constantly be on my phone. I actually want to enjoy that.
[00:22:35] Kym: I love that we talk about that a lot on this podcast. Like, if you wanna do this lifestyle, consider low acuity type clients, right? Instead of like, you know, severe trauma PTSD meeting three times a week, that kind of thing. Or do intensivess if you wanna do that, but do 'em like once a month and then give 'em back to their primary therapist.
[00:22:53] Maren: Yeah. Yes, exactly. You say, I'm here when you need me, but I'm not your everyday person.
[00:22:59] Kym: Such good tips. So where do people find you if they want to work with you, if they wanna learn more about profit keeps and how to put this into their lives?
[00:23:07] Maren: Absolutely. So my website is www.balanceandbeyondcoaching.com and you'll be able to see Profit for Keeps on there. I also have an Instagram balance and beyond coaching I've got a Facebook group Profit for Keeps for Therapist, where I do a lot of different trainings in it, and we're continuing to do that. You know, those sorts of things. I just started my YouTube channel. I have one on there right now, but, TBD TBD, what that's gonna look like. And you know, they can go to my website and book a discovery call with me. So, super easy on there, you can add me on Facebook, send me a message, you know, whatever works for you.
[00:23:46] Kym: Yeah. That's amazing. Well, I look forward to, I think I'm already following you in all the places, but if I'm not, I'm gonna go, I, I think I'm in your Facebook group already.
[00:23:53] Maren: Yes. I can't remember if we are or not. I feel like we're connected to so many places.
[00:23:56] Kym: Yeah, I know. It's like I know. I see you everywhere.
[00:23:59] Maren: yes, I know. I see you. I just don't know where.
[00:24:00] Kym: Yeah. Well, thanks for taking the time today. I really appreciate you coming on and being a guest.
[00:24:04] Maren: Absolutely. And one other, I forgot to mention this, but I do have, it's gonna be on October 21st, and I'll probably be doing more of them, but I'm doing, it's called the Profitable Therapist, the Financial Clarity Retreat. And so Amber Dugger, the founder, profit for Keeps, is actually co-hosting it with me.
[00:24:23] So we're doing it together and it's really a group setting. It's about. We're still trying to figure out what the time's gonna be. We're starting to do this to see, okay, what do people actually need? You know, what's this gonna look like? But we're gonna walk through the blueprint with you. we're gonna be there to guide you.
[00:24:40] And there is something powerful about being in a group setting to see what other people are doing. You know the questions. And it's really great for all seasons of therapists, whether it's somebody thinking about a private practice, uh oh. But I don't think I can afford this. Or somebody that wants to do something differently or just wants to make more money, you know?
[00:25:00] Kym: That's exciting. Gosh, I don't think this will air by them, but I bet you're gonna be doing these over and over again too. It sounds like it's gonna be super helpful for people to continue to go through this.
[00:25:09] Maren: Yes. And I do some masterclasses as well on how to be profitable. So those will, you'll see those as well. So you'll be seeing more of this. Yes.
[00:25:18] Kym: It's so great. Well, thanks for taking the time today.
[00:25:21] Maren: Yeah. I'm glad we could do this. And whoever wants to reach out, you know, connect with me and here's the profitability.
[00:25:30] Kym: I love that. And traveling.
[00:25:32] Maren: yes, travel and being profitable and having a sustainable business so we can do it.
[00:25:37] Kym: I love it. Thanks a lot.