A late autism diagnosis can reframe everything you thought you knew about why your work, your relationships, and even your own field have felt harder than they should. For Marina Livis, that reframe arrived after years of being told she was too literal, too this, too that, with no one stopping to ask why.
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Marina to talk about what came after she was finally diagnosed, the licensing hurdles she refused to let stop her, and how all of it shaped the niche she serves now. We also get into the insurance mess so many traveling therapists are sorting through right now, and why she is rethinking how she wants to run her practice.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Marina Livis:
Website: https://www.marinawellness.com
Book a consultation button on her site (routes through her EHR)
Kym's Resources:
Bill Like a Boss: https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/Bill-Like-A-Boss
100 Side Hustles for Therapists: https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/opt-in-100-side-hustles
Thera AI Hub: https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/AI-Tools-for-Therapists
Coaching with Kym: https://calendly.com/kymtolson/30min
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple iTunes | Spotify | Google Podcast | Stitcher | Amazon | Castbox
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. We have a super interesting guest today. I just love her story. Marina Livis is here with us.
[00:00:10] Marina, thank you for being here. I always start out the podcast and just say, how'd you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:19] Marina: That's a great question. Um, I got myself into a long distance relationship with someone that I was pen pals with for many years. Over 10 years we were ... I called him my pen pal 'cause we would exchange you know, old school letters and postcards and have video calls on occasion. And then we finally met.
[00:00:39] He came to visit me in Florida, and that was the beginning of our long distance journey. He lives in London, and I'm in West Palm Beach.
[00:00:49] Kym: Oh my gosh. how'd you meet him? And I, full disclosure, I met my current boyfriend, we've been together almost 25 years, I met him on match.com like 25 years ago. So how'd you guys...
[00:01:01] Marina: back when it was still popular. I don't know how. I must have expanded my settings to include the whole world or something.
[00:01:09] Kym: Oh my God, that, that is awesome so you guys were pen pals for how long? And then decided to
[00:01:16] Marina: years? Yeah
[00:01:17] Kym: then what happened? Th- I just wanna know the details of the romance, besides via traveling thermos. so then were you guys just like, "Oh, I think we like each other," and you, like, visited each other? Or
[00:01:26] Marina: first time he visited me, which was just for a week we really hit it off. And, I mean, my friends here of course thought I was crazy that I'm having a complete stranger stay with me for a week and that I'm gonna pick him up from Miami Airport myself. Like, you know.
[00:01:42] Kym: Oh my gosh
[00:01:43] Marina: But all went well. And then a few months later he proposed, and so we've been engaged for now almost three years.
[00:01:52] We're planning to get legally married, but it's just complicated with, you know, him not being US citizen and, you know, we'd have to apply. He- I want him to move here so he can get his green card and I of course also wanna be able to go there. But my ultimate goal isn't to move to England. So that's why we decided to just compromise with him becoming a US citizen eventually, and hopefully it, it will be smooth sailing.
[00:02:24] It, it's a little nerve-wracking to think about what's to come
[00:02:28] Kym: Yeah, it's a lot of hoops to jump through just to be together. Yeah. What an amazing story. how are you making it work right now with, like, him being over there and you here, and you've got this private practice that you're running? And like, like, let's get into the nitty-gritty details about, like, how you manage all of that.
[00:02:45] Marina: Well, that's mainly why I decided two years ago to quit my full-time agency job. I was working at a men- community mental health agency and I was getting really burnt out. And I asked my own therapist to put me on leave and I used that leave to go over there. And a two-month leave turned into me quitting my job and staying and traveling in England and also you know, throughout Europe for a total of five months so
[00:03:18] Kym: Wow
[00:03:19] Marina: it turned into an extended stay. And I got lucky because at the time I was able to transition, Rula was allowing they allowed me to join their network from England, so, you know, good for them, except that they changed their policy since then. So I was lucky in that the timing was good.
[00:03:39] Now I'm trying to figure out how do I make a fully insurance independent practice where I'm not relying on platforms or insurance because as you know, insurance companies and Alma and Headway make it hard to be a traveling therapist, especially if you're traveling out of the country.
[00:04:01] Kym: Yeah. So you're back in Florida now. Are you still with RULA and you're just trying to get a plan in
[00:04:07] Marina: I'm with
[00:04:07] Kym: you already
[00:04:08] Marina: it very clear to me that I can't see their clients if I'm gonna be out of the country, so I won't be. I'll be discharging. I only have two. otherwise, I have my own fully virtual private practice. I'm independently credentialed with UnitedHealthcare and Florida Blue.
[00:04:26] I do use Alma for a few other insurances, like Aetna and Cigna, but, you know, that's pretty much it. And I stopped using Headway 'cause I, I don't like a lot of their politics and thing- the way they do things.
[00:04:40] And, and I'm about to kick Alma to the curb too after they lowered their Aetna rates and b- got bought out by Spring Health.
[00:04:47] So I ... You know, it's just,
[00:04:50] Kym: It's so unpredictable.
[00:04:51] Marina: Yeah, it's just not worth it for me anymore to pay their membership fee if that's how they're gonna do things
[00:04:58] Kym: Yeah. Oh, I know. I hear it. I hear you. I mean, and Alma, just full disclosure, actually sponsors this podcast,
[00:05:05] Marina: Oh, wow.
[00:05:06] Kym: know, yeah, which is fine. I mean, I'm not, I would never not talk about something because they're a sponsor, but they even reached out to me personally and they said, this is a huge upset even to Alma, that aetna has decided to no longer pay for 90837s. Essentially, they're not gonna do it anymore. The- they call them extended
[00:05:23] Marina: But what I-- 'cause I've asked therapists who are independently credentialed with Aetna, and to their knowledge, there has been no decrease in the rate. So it's something with the contract specifically with Alma
[00:05:36] Kym: Yeah, and it's, it's... I've seen it just flying around the Facebook groups. Like, it's super frustrating right now because, I mean, that's... I don't know what your rates are. Everybody's rates are a little bit different depending on location and that sort of thing. But to go from a 90837 pay to 90834 is
[00:05:51] Marina: Yeah, it's a big difference. It's
[00:05:54] Kym: Yeah
[00:05:54] Marina: $25 drop for me.
[00:05:57] Kym: It's terrible. Yeah. So you're in a position where a lot of therapists are now. It's like, you know, I've got these clients, they're insurance based essentially. Do I get credentialed on my own now and try to do that? Or do I try to like pivot to p- all private pay and not even worry about the insurance companies?
[00:06:13] Especially somebody like you that's, you know, knows that you're gonna wanna be out of the country often
[00:06:20] Marina: Yeah, I really don't wanna rely on insurance, but I, I understand that some clients just can't afford that
[00:06:26] Kym: Yeah, absolutely. so how's it going with that? I mean, maybe we could talk about it. Like, how, how's it going? Um, 'Cause people listening are probably like, one, you know, "Oh my God, I don't want Rule of Grow headway, you know, all but to do that to my rates. Like, what do I do?" Do you have a game plan for that, or are you just kinda trying to figure it out as you go?
[00:06:46] Marina: Well, luckily with Alma I have just one client who has Aetna, and then the Cigna clients have fallen off the bandwagon, so to speak. And so now I'm just down to Optum or UnitedHealthcare clients, which I'm independently credentialed with. So if I wanted to come off Alma I will just tell my one Aetna client that I'm gonna be out of network.
[00:07:10] So if he wants to continue with me, he'll have to pay the, you know, out of network cash pay rate. You know, I, I wanna offer him options for getting reimbursed if that's something his insurance allows. And then for my other clients, I can transfer them directly to have my biller do the billing for UnitedHealthcare.
[00:07:30] And so I'm really grateful that I got independently credentialed, which was Danielle's, my business coach's recommendation to begin with when I was in her program, not to rely on platforms.
[00:07:42] and even though there's headaches with independent credentialing too and, you know, claim denials and all that, but at least, you know, I don't have to rely on the platform in these types of situations.
[00:07:55] Kym: Yeah, absolutely. Especially because, I mean, who knows? I mean, right now, as far as I know, Cigna, Aetna, UnitedHealthcare don't care where the clinician's located. They don't have any rules around that. But definitely we know Medicare, Blue Cross Blue Shield, I don't know about Florida Blue specifically, but I think they've all got those regulations where you're not supposed to be out of the country billing or seeing
[00:08:18] Marina: my biller said Florida Blue Blue Cross Blue Shield allows being out of the country. It's one of the few that do, which is why I
[00:08:21] Kym: Oh. Oh, good
[00:08:26] Marina: initially got credentialed with them.
[00:08:29] Kym: Nice.
[00:08:30] Marina: Does United
[00:08:30] Kym: good to know
[00:08:31] Marina: allow it? 'Cause I didn't
[00:08:33] Kym: As far as I know, I've, I don't see anything in my contracts 'cause I've looked through them. And I know people that have asked and they've gotten the answer that it's okay. But then, like probably about three, four months ago, somebody did email me and say, "Look what my United contract has in writing".
[00:08:51] And it was just this little blurb around international locations and that sort of thing, so. But that's the only one I've ever seen. And she was like... I mean, United is like a national, you know, company where Blue Cross Blue Shield is each state. But I've not seen anybody else say that they've had, they've seen that in their contract.
[00:09:07] I haven't seen it in mine. But that's also the thing about, you know, insurance is it, they can change literally any day, just like Rula did. You know what I mean? Rula was fine. A lot of people were using Rula. Amma was fine for a long time. They... That they started sponsoring this podcast because they were fine with it, like supporting the traveling therapist lifestyle, and then they changed their policy, you know. It has to do with Blue Cross Blue Shield.
[00:09:31] Marina: That's odd because my, I wonder if Florida Blue changed their policy, 'cause when I got credentialed
[00:09:37] Kym: I would trust your biller. Yeah. Maybe just ask her where is it in writing, just double check it like that. But I think there's only like five or six Blue Cross Blue Shield states that explicitly say you can't be out of the country, and I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. But not all of them have that.
[00:09:54] Marina: I hope Illinois isn't one 'cause I'm starting my process of applying for licensure in Illinois.
[00:10:01] Kym: I don't know. It'd be worth checking out though, for sure. Yeah. you know, before we hit record, and this is kind of a segue into more about you, 'cause I think it's interesting your journey just as a clinician and personally in your life, and kinda what you're doing now and how you're, you're pivoting to have a different niche and that sort of thing based on what you've, learned.
[00:10:19] So maybe we could talk about that a little bit, where you are. Could you tell us your story a little bit about, like, what's going on in your life?
[00:10:27] Marina: Definitely. Well, I was late diagnosed with autism in February of 2018. And it resulted from mainly me really struggling at one of my community mental health agency jobs where I was getting trained in play therapy, and I was consistently being told, "You're too literal." You know, "You're too this, you're too that."
[00:10:49] you know, it was very mind-boggling to me because up until that point, nobody really , like, put this, level of criticism and judgment on me. And so my anxiety was going through the roof 'cause I constantly felt like I was being told what I'm not doing right. And after being terminated from that job, which I believe to this day was a wrongful termination I ended up going to my local career center and basically sharing them the laundry list of complaints against me that that I was being told about.
[00:11:23] And they ended up paying for me to be evaluated by a psychologist for a vocational skills evaluation. So that put me on a whole different path because I ended up being diagnosed with autism or what used to be Asperger's or autism level one, and PTSD at the same time. And I'm now finding out that happens quite a bit where, you know, there's PTSD concurrent with the ASD diagnosis because us neurodivergent folk tend to experience quite a bit of bullying, trauma, you know. I've experienced it in the mental health field, unfortunately.
[00:12:03] Kym: Yeah.
[00:12:04] Marina: very psychologist who evaluated me ended up concluding that I shouldn't be a therapist
[00:12:10] Kym: Wow, really?
[00:12:12] Marina: Yep. And then when I asked her to change her conclusion, she refused.
[00:12:16] Kym: Are you serious? my gosh. So what happened?
[00:12:21] Marina: And I was already a therapist. I was a registered clinical social work intern at that point, five years into my career. Not only that, but I had hired a clinical supervisor to finish my hours for Florida and, um, she ended up not recommending me for licensure, and it was soon after I told her about the late autism diagnosis. So I put two and two together. She really had no reason not to recommend me.
[00:12:49] Kym: Oh my God, that
[00:12:50] Marina: the board made me redo all those hours that I did under her, pay another supervisor, who luckily did recommend me. So I had to do more hours than anybody else, and it took me a total of seven years to get my license because of all these hurdles.
[00:13:08] Mm-hmm. Seven years from the time that I graduated
[00:13:12] Kym: Wow. That is horrifying
[00:13:15] Marina: Yeah. I kind of half jokingly tell people that if someone had told me back in, back then that I could have done my PhD in the amount of time it would take me to get a social work license, I would've just gone for the PhD
[00:13:31] Kym: I can't believe that. Oh my gosh. So you went for the evaluation just because it was like, you know, what, there's something going
[00:13:39] Marina: Yeah, something's
[00:13:39] Kym: and then literally the person evaluating you, like, that probably special- I mean, I guess they would specialize in this, said you shouldn't be a therapist?
[00:13:48] Marina: Yeah. After two days of being assessed, like it was an ordeal. I was exhausted mentally from the whole process. But yeah
[00:13:58] Kym: bet. Oh my God. that just, like, horrifies me. So obviously you're a therapist.
[00:14:05] Marina: Yeah, obviously I'm licensed now.
[00:14:08] Kym: oh my gosh. So you had to redo all that seven years later, and then you, you were able to... So were you able to find a supervisor that got it? I mean, I guess
[00:14:18] Marina: I ended up just coming across someone in the Jewish community here locally who happened to be a clinical supervisor and I said, "Let's make a deal. I'll do whatever it takes for you to you know, promise me that you'll recommend me to..." And I told him the story of what happened and he's like, "I'll be happy to help," you know?
[00:14:38] And so I had, luckily at that time, I had done enough clinical supervision face-to-face that the board was okay with me doing virtual supervision with this other supervisor. But I just felt it was unfair what I had to put up with. And I even consulted a disability attorney to see what my rights were and, you know, chose not to pursue litigation. But still, I'm sure I'm not the only one that has struggled in this field
[00:15:05] Kym: Wow. So now that you've been through all this, you're uniquely qualified to help other people that, I mean, I guess your, your niche is late stage autism diagnosis,
[00:15:16] Marina: Yeah. Late identifying or formally late diagnosed like me.
[00:15:22] Kym: Wow. somebody that's been through what you've been through and had this specialty, it's like such a you know, a niche market. You know? Like if you ever do have to transition into that private pay model like that, that, we were talking about that before we hit record, like being able to market to that, you know, niche client is gonna make it so much easier to transition off those insurance panels.
[00:15:43] Especially if you wanna go to, you know, Europe for, for eight months or a year or whatever, you know, and it's like it's not gonna work, you know, just to visit. I wanna stay over there for a long time. Like you might, that might have to be in your plan later to just transition off. So
[00:15:57] Marina: It is in my plan. It's just so far I haven't had a whole lot of luck with, you know, as soon as someone finds out that I'm in their network for insurance, you know, that's when they would rather do that. They, even if they have a high deductible to meet and, you know, have to pay cash for part of the treatment, they would still rather do that 'cause then it counts towards their out-of-pocket and things
[00:16:23] Kym: Yeah. That makes it hard. It makes it hard when you are on the platforms because then you still are kinda like, "Well, I can, I can take it." But if you're, like, really not on their platforms or not credentialed, then you could say, "Well, here's your out-of-network options," like Mintaya or, you know, one of those companies that helps with out-of-network billing and that sort of thing. Yeah
[00:16:44] Marina: And my own therapist that I found, you know, by putting into one of the Facebook groups looking for a therapist for myself, 'cause I wanted to make sure I work with an autistic therapist, because for me it's been a learning curve, learning about autism, especially as it shows up in women. So I wanted someone that can work with me, that can understand me, and also help me understand myself.
[00:17:07] And so I couldn't find anyone in the whole state of Florida, believe it or not. I did Google searches and AI searches for autistic therapist. I've also done searches for autistic psychologist. Not that I've been able to find.
[00:17:22] So my therapist is based in Maryland, but licensed here, and that's ... And I pay her cash, because she's a cash pay therapist.
[00:17:30] Kym: Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. I don't know what the prevalence rate is We could talk about that, but do you think that maybe therapists aren't advertising that, or that they don't know themselves, or
[00:17:41] Marina: be that they don't know themselves, because I can't imagine if they already know why they wouldn't put that in their advertising. I mean, that's... The, people want that. People want more therapists with lived experience, not just book knowledge, not just some autism certification,
[00:17:59] Kym: Exactly. Thank gosh you're out there, yeah, and available. Oh
[00:18:04] Marina: And what's been helpful too is connecting. I'm part of this autistic psychotherapists and counselors Facebook group. It's UK based. The person who's the administrator for it is based in the UK, and I've been part of it since getting my diagnosis, 'cause the first thing I wanted to do was I need to find other autistic therapists.
[00:18:24] They must be out there somewhere.
[00:18:27] Kym: my people?
[00:18:28] Marina: that's how I found this group. I, I for some reason didn't find a group like that that's based here in the US. But it's been helpful to be part of that group and connect with other autistic, you know, providers that way
[00:18:42] Kym: Wow. What a story. Oh my gosh, you've been through a lot. so what are... You know, this is just pure educational purposes for maybe a therapist listening that might not even know they, they might have it. So what, what are some, signs, especially for women, that maybe they're undiagnosed or they may not even realize they have it? What would you tell them?
[00:19:03] Marina: it presents differently for some people. It could be difficulty with eye contact. That, that wasn't an issue for me. It could also be just very common is literal interpretation of things, so taking things literally. Maybe writing assessments in a very literal way . Having difficulty with certain metaphors or certain idioms or picking up the punchline to a joke, you know, things like that.
[00:19:30] It could also be maybe you need to script, maybe you rely on scripts for presentations or even just regular conversations with people because you have social anxiety. That can be part of it. It could be twirling your hair, which I've since learned through Instagram and YouTube that that can be a self-stim for women.
[00:19:52] You know, the, it's like a socially acceptable form of stimming as opposed to hand flapping, you know? cause I used to think, "Oh, I don't stim." And then I'm like, "Wait a minute."
[00:20:03] For me it's a lot of sensory overload. You know, being in airports or being in crowded, loud places or even in the mall.
[00:20:13] I live right across the street from the Palm Beach Outlets Mall. I only go there to get my groceries or to get exactly what I need and get out as quickly as possible because otherwise if I go into a department store or just wander around, I go into sensory overload.
[00:20:33] Kym: Wow. Yeah. So interesting. So what is, like, somebody listening to this and they're like, "Well, I'm not gonna go get diagnosed or take an evaluation because what if they say I can't do my job?" Like, do you have recommendations for that or, or what to do?
[00:20:49] Marina: Luckily, I
[00:20:49] Kym: Yeah
[00:20:51] Marina: have been able to find some seemingly good enough psychologists for my existing clients, 'cause I have referred some of my existing clients who were suspecting that they're autistic or ADHD or both, and they needed someone and were willing to go that route of evaluation, and they had good, positive experiences as opposed to me.
[00:21:15] So I, I a- actually have shared with them about my negative experience just as something for them to be aware of and to do their research and to really ask questions before they, you know, commit to a specific provider
[00:21:31] Kym: Yeah. It never occurred to me. So w- that, that person that did your evaluation and, and gave that recommendation, Did you go into it thinking like, "I'm gonna get this recommendation. It's gonna prove I've... You know, this, this is what's going on, and it's gonna help
[00:21:45] Marina: that yeah, they would pick
[00:21:46] up on
[00:21:47] Kym: and then they totally just flipped it on you and said, "I don't think you should do this anymore."
[00:21:51] And then did they have to report to your agency that information, or you chose to do
[00:21:57] Marina: At that point I was no longer with the agency anyway, but yeah, this is completely confidential. I don't have to share the report with anyone, thank goodness, because they refused to change the conclusion. And not only that, but they sent me for the vocational evaluation, which ironically showed that I would be great at doing psychological assessments.
[00:22:18] And then
[00:22:18] Kym: Oh my gosh. Are you serious?
[00:22:20] Marina: I was like, "Oh, that's a slap in the face to the psychologist."
[00:22:24] Kym: Oh, that is just, it just blows my mind that that happened. I'm just sorry that happened to you. Gosh, and all that, like, I don't know if it was a struggle for you, but just all that extra time and effort and energy you had to put through to get licensed and you did it anyway, and you're still doing it. You didn't let it, like, deter you,
[00:22:43] Marina: Well, this is kind of funny, but I, I often would tell people because I had to... I moved from New Jersey to Florida. I didn't always live here, and I went to graduate school at Rutgers School of Social Work in New Jersey. And I thought for sure I'm gonna get licensed there, I'm gonna spend my whole career in the tri-state area, but I had trouble with finding jobs that I wanted.
[00:23:07] And so even though I got the master's level license, which is required over there I ultimately chose to move to Florida in or- in order to get licensed here clinically as an independent clinician. I had to transfer my ASWB scores from New Jersey. And luckily there was state reciprocity, so that wasn't an issue.
[00:23:28] But I tell people, 'cause I've met some social workers here who are still not licensed after many years in practice, and I would ask them, "What was the biggest challenge for you?" And they said it was taking the exam or passing the exam. I had to take two exams, master's level and clinical, and I passed
[00:23:46] Kym: my gosh. wow.
[00:23:48] Marina: did them like one after the other. And so I kind of half jokingly say it's, it was a people problem, not an exam problem that kept me from getting my license for seven years.
[00:24:02] Kym: Yes. Oh my gosh. Oh, what a nightmare.
[00:24:06] Marina: Which of course ties into the autism, right? The people problem. It's like, if I could just get the people out of the way, I'd be golden.
[00:24:14] Kym: I'd be great. Yeah. That's so funny.
[00:24:16] Marina: give me more exams to take. I'll pass them all.
[00:24:19] Kym: I know exactly what to do. I'll answer every question
[00:24:21] Marina: All right
[00:24:22] Kym: real hard. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Wow. you know, I just love the determination, you know? Like, with that, and you did it anyway, and you made it to the end, and now you've got your own private practice, and now you're up against new roadblocks with this relationship you're in, and your fiance, and wanting to be together and all that.
[00:24:41] It's, it sounds like you're just a very determined person, and you're not gonna let, like,
[00:24:46] Marina: Persistence, that's been my my strongest characteristic is, you know, all the times that I was ready to give up on my license, give up on myself, I mean, I've struggled my, with my own mental health issues, anxiety and depression, I maintained, you know. and also what, what helped was something I learned from my own therapist called PDA.
[00:25:08] It's apparently a thing with us autistics, which is Persistent drive for autonomy.
[00:25:14] and so for me I noticed this since a young age. If someone tells me I can't do something, I have to go and do it. I have to go prove them wrong. So the more people were telling me I can't be a therapist or I shouldn't be a therapist or I shouldn't do this or that, I would go and prove them wrong. It was like that fueled me. That kept me going.
[00:25:37] Kym: I love that. Yeah, I'm the same way. I've always been that way. I just was talking about this in the last episode. It's like, if you tell me no, you better believe I'm gonna figure out a way to do it.
[00:25:47] Marina: Right, exactly. I don't take no for an answer.
[00:25:50] Kym: I love it. But, but stories like yours are what really encourages the listeners of this podcast to continue on. 'Cause I mean, the one before was talking about she can't find a supervisor, and she wants to live in Europe. You know, she's not licensed yet, you know? And it's just all these stories of just, roadblocks, When really you have this life you wanna live, and you can see it, and it's just, like, these arbitrary really dumb roadblocks, you know, around, like, where, where you can be located or why or, you know, all these nos from certain entities, you know? And it's just like, I just love hearing stories like this
[00:26:23] Marina: I think
[00:26:24] Kym: know what?
[00:26:25] Marina: especially because I came from coaching. I was a health coach before I went back to school for social work, and everyone thought I was crazy for doing that because most people go the other way.
[00:26:37] Kym: Yeah.
[00:26:38] Marina: I really wanted to help people in all walks of life, not just those who could afford a coach, which not everyone does, unfortunately.
[00:26:47] And I wanted to also be in... As one psychologist told me, "If you wanna be a change agent, you need to be in it. You need to be on the inside and create change from the inside." But when you're a coach, you're on the outside. You're not in the field. So it's very different. And so now I like to say I call myself an integrative holistic therapist because I really am.
[00:27:13] I'm a certified integrative nutrition coach. I'm a certified yoga instructor. I'm a certified hypnotherapist. So I put all that together with my degree and license in social work, and I really am integrative and, and unique in that way because, you know, I like to tell my clients, "You're really getting a good deal here because you've got five in one."
[00:27:38] Kym: I love it. is so awesome. And it's interesting, right? 'Cause the, the nutritional piece, the functional medicine piece, all of
[00:27:44] Marina: Oh,
[00:27:44] Kym: that, like, there's so many therapists that don't get that, like, your gut health or, you know, like, can totally cause symptoms that maybe even look like autism. You know? Like, who knows what's going on, you know? And you being an expert around, like, maybe it's this, maybe it's this. Let's look at all these possible, you know, origins for what's happening.
[00:28:04] I think that's truly, like, you're a unicorn in that respect.
[00:28:08] Marina: Yes, and actually one of my autistic clients recently said I'm a hypochondriac because every week I bring up a new topic when it comes to health. I'm like, "Okay, you need to consider doing a parasite detox. Okay, now we're gonna talk about genetic single nucleotide polymorphisms and what are the common ones with autistics.
[00:28:29] You need to look into finding a doctor that can test you for this. Okay, now you might wanna consider heavy metal testing. Now you may wanna consider a full micronutrient panel, and here's why it's important."
[00:28:43] And some people just soak it right up and are all ready and, you know, willing to hire a functional medicine doctor or do testing some other way, and others are very resistant
[00:28:56] Kym: Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, my story, I don't know if you know anything about me, but I have celiac disease, and, you know, I was undiagnosed. I, I had it... I'm sure I had it even as a teenager, 'cause I had a lot of anxiety and psoriasis and just a lot of weird things. But I didn't get diagnosed until I was probably, like, 39 years old or something like that.
[00:29:16] And just, you know, things like that, people
[00:29:19] Marina: So you had the biopsy done?
[00:29:21] Kym: Yeah, mm-hmm. And they, they came right out, and they were like, "Oh yeah, she's got celiac." I had the folds in my stomach and everything. But nobody...
[00:29:30] Marina: traveling, you know,
[00:29:31] Kym: Oh, it is. it's not fun sometimes. It's really hard. But I bring my own pots and pans, and...
[00:29:37] Marina: so I can relate. We both need to be on a gluten-free diet regardless. I have non-celiac gluten sensitivity, but I tell everyone they'd be better off without American gluten, especially American gluten.
[00:29:50] Kym: I think that's true. I really do. Yeah, so I guess I'm just saying, like, I could totally relate to, you know, it comes in looking like anxiety, but how do I know it's not undiagnosed celiac or something that's causing, you know, this problem? 'Cause I, I definitely had, like, just weird anxiety, you know? Still do, 'cause I get exposed sometimes to gluten, and I'm like, "What's going on?"
[00:30:10] It's like, oh, I ate at the, at that restaurant, and they said everything was gluten-free, but it really wasn't, you know?
[00:30:16] Marina: is a big problem
[00:30:18] Kym: Yeah. And so I just, I love that you've got both perspectives. Like, you understand the importance of evaluations, like, in all the ways.
[00:30:26] Marina: Honestly, I wish I had the capacity to go back to school and become a doctor so I could do the testing myself and, and do it all, you know, and, and not have to rely on somebody else to do it. But I'm too squeamish and just can't look at cadavers.
[00:30:44] Kym: That'd be a lot, yeah. Oh my gosh.
[00:30:47] Marina: Plus it's, it's a system that's broken, and until medical school becomes functional medical school, I really have no interest
[00:30:57] Kym: Totally. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm glad you're out there though doing this work. It's so important, you know, even like I wish I had s- had somebody realize what was going on with me way earlier, you know. That's why I like to talk about it on here too, just in case there's a therapist listening, they're like, "Oh, I never
[00:31:12] Marina: Yes. It's very important to educate, you know, because now the research has proven the gut-brain connection. But back when you were diagnosed or when I was diagnosed with the gluten sensitivity in my 20s, there was nothing. There, there weren't a lot of options. There, there wasn't ... It wasn't being talked about even.
[00:31:35] There wasn't whole aisles of the grocery store with gluten-free snacks and things,
[00:31:40] Kym: I know. Gosh. It's, and it's still got a long way to go.
[00:31:44] But anyway, well, thank you for sharing all this. Such an interesting story. Yeah, and I really hope you, the insurance piece works out and, you know, you're able to get to Europe and not have any surprises that way. I know with RULA, I've had a lot of people reach out to me with the RULA change in that rule, that it's, it's just been, like, the rug's been pulled out from a lot of
[00:32:04] Marina: yeah, especially if they fully rely... I'm glad I no longer rely on Rula all that much
[00:32:10] Kym: Yeah, me too. I really am. Well, how do people find you and, and work with you? If somebody's listening, they're like, "I need that therapist," or they're like, "I wanna just learn more about what she does and knows, and learn from you about the autism piece and the functional medicine piece," how do people find you?
[00:32:26] Marina: Well, the easiest is my website. It's www.marinawellness.com, and I have a big button, Book a Consultation with Me. When you fill that out, it goes right to my EHR, electronic health record software sessions, which Kim, I know promotes for Traveling Therapists, and I really love it so far. And then, you know, it's scheduled through my EHR calendar, and then I call you.
[00:32:56] I do phone consultations. I'm very generous. I say that it's a 15-minute call, but it turns into a half-hour call. And so it's an opportunity for us to get to know each other, see if we're a fit, what are the options, insurance or cash pay you know, and go from there.
[00:33:14] Kym: Nice. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today
[00:33:18] Marina: Thank you for having me.