Work exchange is one of those ideas that sounds great in theory but feels impossible once you add kids, a therapy caseload, and two suitcases into the equation. Shannel Busuioc figured out how to make it work anyway.
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Shannel, a Marriage and Family Therapist who left San Francisco in 2023 with her husband and two young kids to build a remote life abroad. She has spent the past three years moving her family through farms in Oregon, coastal towns in Mexico, forest schools in Portugal, and now the mountains of San Miguel de Allende. Work exchange has been one of the tools that made it sustainable, and she breaks down exactly how she approached it with a family in tow.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Shannel Busuioc:
https://www.therapywithshannel.com
https://www.travelthroughtrauma.org
https://www.gounpacked.substack.com
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The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. Our guest today is really interesting. I think she's, like, cracked the code on family travel and how to make it work wherever you wanna go. Chanel, said I wasn't gonna say her n- her last name because it's weird to pronounce, but she can do it. I'm gonna introduce
[00:00:16] Chanel. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to dive into everything. I always start out and just say, like, how did you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling
[00:00:26] Shannel: Yeah, it's a great question. Thanks for having me. I'd almost say, like, I'm gonna put the travel part first, and then I became the therapist, because travel is in my bones. It is where I feel alive, I feel confident, I feel challenged, I feel humbled. And so that has been throughout my life. And then became a therapist early on, and kind of always weaved them together where any time we had a break my husband and I, we would take that two-week vacation.
[00:00:57] And then we were like, "Wait, we need to challenge ourselves and see if our jobs would allow us to take a three-month trip." And so all the nerves in us were like, "They're not gonna let us." And we took a three-month trip, called it 100 Days to Go Unpacked. And from there, that 100 days of travel really set the stage of really dismantling our beliefs that we can't ask our, our boss because they already have set rules on the job, or that's too much to ask.
[00:01:28] So that set the stage of, oh, we would like to make this our lifestyle. we had two kids and knew that we wanted to pursue travel with them and live that life. And so, once COVID hit and we realized that therapy can be remote, that was our golden ticket. And so as soon as my youngest turned one years old, we decided to take off.
[00:01:53] So COVID was the biggest factor for us, where prior to COVID, I had this dream of like, could I do remote work? I don't know if my clients would like it. And really, again, thinking back of how limiting those thoughts were and and how COVID, I guess, gave permission, and that expanded these places where sometimes, yeah, we can limit ourselves based on what we think our clients could handle or not, or, So
[00:02:18] Kym: that. So when you did the 100 days unpacked, was he like working and you were like work-- Were you like working for a practice or something and just, you just decided we're gonna see what happens and ask and, and then you did it?
[00:02:29] Shannel: exactly, we were in San Francisco. My husband was uh, worked at a private school as a director of communications. I worked at FIDM, the Fashion and Design Institute in San Francisco, a college, and I was the school therapist. And then in the evenings I would work part-time in private practice.
[00:02:47] So like 12-hour days of like eight hours at the college and a couple hours afterwards with clients. And we both said like, "If one of us gets a yes from our job, the other will quit their job." And we both came back and our bosses said yes. And surprisingly, yeah, I, it, the part of the trip that we had was to India, so we did a lot of volunteer work.
[00:03:09] So we kind of made it so that what we are going to travel for had meaning, and it wasn't just to take a break. And that has been our philosophy going forward too, that travel is not meant to just take a break from life. Because what typically happens is you then you just return, and it's as if it never happened.
[00:03:29] And instead, how do we actually create meaning, build capacity identify our strengths or identify our values? And that 100 days we had really kind of solidified what we valued in that way. So yeah, surprisingly, I think if you have a good relationship with your, your boss or even if you don't one thing I've learned is just like, j- just ask.
[00:03:51] People are flexible. Yeah.
[00:03:53] Kym: Yeah, it couldn't hurt. so that happened before COVID, right? Is that, is,
[00:03:58] Shannel: Yes, happened before
[00:03:59] Kym: and then COVID. and then did you both go remote or was, was he like, "I'm just gonna quit my job and we're just gonna
[00:04:05] Shannel: Yes, exactly.
[00:04:08] Kym: Okay.
[00:04:09] Shannel: it transitioned was we planned for a year in advance. It took about a year to really say, "Where are we going? What's our purpose? what kind of housing do we need? We need reliable internet." And our kind of philosophy around money has always been the same since we've met, which is live only with what you need, just enough minimalism.
[00:04:32] And so with that, even having kind of average salaries in San Francisco, we were able to save enough that we had about a year's worth of savings if we needed to both not work before we traveled for a year that we accumulated.
[00:04:47] And from there, after a year of planning, we had to decide, like, what do we need to survive? And really, we, we kind of landed on the number of 5,000 a month. Then for the four of us, we can live comfortably. And yeah, so 5,000 was about 10 clients for me.
[00:05:06] Kym: That's amazing.
[00:05:07] Shannel: my husband could quit his job and life looked really, really different from the life we had in San Francisco where we lived with, yeah, just kind of a, a lifestyle where we thought light on stuff but heavy on experience, and that kind of became the way that we lived.
[00:05:24] And for the past three years, we've been living off of the 5,000 a month that I make and seeing about 10 clients and have been around everywhere. Yeah, and
[00:05:36] Kym: that's what I was gonna ask you, 'cause you said you sort of like planned it a year in advance and had enough money and everything.
[00:05:41] What was the plan like? What did you take into consideration, especially with the kids and knowing he wasn't gonna work and we have $5,000 a month that we could probably make this work. So what was the plan?
[00:05:52] Shannel: Yeah. So the plan was to choose destinations that were very different than the city life in San Francisco that each place had a particular purpose and meaning that we can take away from. And also kind of the, the basic factor was like looking at weather and making sure that the weather was okay so that it was relatively comfortable.
[00:06:14] So we chose in that year, first year of travel with our kids, we chose four locations staying for three months each. And the three-month idea was to make sure that we've been integrated enough, we've gotten a routine, we have seen the same coffee shop we can go to, the same people, and really, especially with kids, making sure that they feel settled enough before we transition again.
[00:06:38] And so, yeah, like really different. We started off on a farm, a dairy farm in Oregon. I've never been on a farm and really we had chores on the farm. The kids were doing a lot of the work with us. And then we transitioned. So that one was the meaning was like, yeah, chores and understanding what it's like, like to be around animals and helping out.
[00:07:04] And then the second three months we went to La Paz, Mexico, and that is where we got the cultural immersion. We volunteered at the garden there. And then the next location was in a really small town in Portugal that we've never heard of, but found has a really beautiful forest school. So my five-year-old was making fires as his learning lesson.
[00:07:27] He was given a knife at five years old to carve wood making compasses out of scratch. So each place had a little, a bit of like almost what we call like a family internship. We're trying out different ways to live in the world so that we can gather that data and really assess what brings us purpose, what brings us meaning, and doing it in a way really simply where our kids can watch us work rather than hear that we work.
[00:07:57] Kym: Yes, right,
[00:07:58] Shannel: a lot, yeah, a lot of what we did was also work exchange through Workaway
[00:08:05] Kym: Okay. That's what I wanted to... I know you said that in your bio. I wanna know more about that. Yeah. Okay. So workaway, Work Exchange
[00:08:11] Shannel: Yeah, work exchange. So in order to kind of supplement or at least also have the experience of being a part of something, in a couple locations, we did a work exchange. One in Portugal for a couple weeks where we worked 20 hours a week each, myself and my husband, in exchange for food and housing.
[00:08:32] And we've done that before prior to kids, and we're like, " How would it be with kids?" Does anyone even take a family? to our surprise, after a lot of searching and really filtering out people who did accept kids, and ours were one and a half and four, so there's only so much they can do.
[00:08:50] And just talking to the host, she said, "Yeah, why not? Let's try it out." And so my-- like, I was the cook for 20 hours a week for all the volunteers. My husband did the painting, the chimney cleaning, the, the gardening. And that was another way to not only supplement financially, but really to have this place where we can understand what a family unit looks like and the role of each person in contributing to the team, essentially. Um
[00:09:22] Kym: So cool. So were you seeing clients during that time or, you have 20 hours of
[00:09:27] Shannel: challenging part was probably those couple weeks of working seeing clients in this little inn that she had to stay in that we d- had no idea what it looked like before we got there because it's not-- it's, it's just an exchange. And finding out like, okay, what room am I g- am I gonna be in? The kids have to go to sleep before I see my evening clients, so then I don't hear noise or crying.
[00:09:52] Kym: Yeah
[00:09:53] Shannel: surprisingly, out of like the three years we've been living this life, ironically, the one time I got disrupted in a session was actually in that volunteer exchange we did by another volunteer, and not by my kids at the end.
[00:10:09] Someone just knocked on my, on the glass door while I was in a phone session and said, "Can I come in?" And I wrote a sign and said, "I'm working. I'll, I'll be done in 30 minutes." And she needed some help with something, and at the end was kind of having a kind of a psychotic break. And I just like suddenly became a therapist, and I'm like, "Come on in my house. Let me
[00:10:30] Kym: like, "Wait, something's going on here."
[00:10:32] Shannel: Yeah. So, so yes, we, we have found a routine with kids where even in different places we l- we've lived, I give myself a couple days to transition to the usually Airbnb that we're in, to set up shop, to basically gather a little side table, put some books on it, and, make sure that room has good enough internet.
[00:10:55] And yeah, so it's been really interesting to also invite my clients into where I'm located. I'm pretty transparent about that. So they've seen like, "Oh where are you? You l- you look like you have cows in the background." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm at a dairy farm." Almost gives clients, I think, permission to also go outside of the systems that we've been taught are the only path.
[00:11:20] Kym: So inspirational for them, I'm sure. My clients I have a few clients now, but they always say, "Okay, where in the world are you today, Kim?" You know, they always wanna know.
[00:11:28] I'm like, "Oh, I'm looking at the beach right now," or whatever, you know? They love it. That's so cool. I feel like I just wanna ask you about every single place you've been, but what about the...
[00:11:39] So the work exchange, like how does somebody figure out how to do that? Is it like a website or like,
[00:11:44] Shannel: there's a wonder-- Definitely. There's a few websites. The one we use is called workaway.info.
[00:11:50] Kym: Okay.
[00:11:51] Shannel: are hundreds of thousands of people on there. Literally every corner of the world you can do an exchange for 20 hours a week for food and board.
[00:12:00] Kym: Oh
[00:12:01] Shannel: And it's a beautiful program that really promotes community and exchange, which has been traditionally, I think, how our ancestors have lived.
[00:12:09] And so you get to go back into that lifestyle and really feel a part of something bigger than you learn a skill that oftentimes people are just willing to get help, and so you kind of learn a skill on the spot. And then the other website that a lot of people use is called WWOOFing,
[00:12:26] and that's mainly for people who are interested in farming and gardening as the exchange versus Workaway, it's a variety of different work you can do
[00:12:35] Kym: Wow. So just like, you said with your husband, like typical, like painting, like handyman kind of stuff, or like you said, cooking, just anything that would help.
[00:12:43] Shannel: Yeah, anything that would help. For some people, they just want to, like, can someone watch my kids for a few hours and play with them? They're really fun kids. Can you play with my kids? So a variety, I think, like anyone can be find somewhere in the world to go to especially financially kind of supports a life that one might wanna keep traveling in that's a great way
[00:13:04] Kym: Wow, that is so cool. So is two weeks the limit? You said two weeks, right?
[00:13:09] Shannel: Two weeks is typically the minimum, because once they have to set you up and show you the ropes, and this is where you're gonna be doing the gardening, and this is how you paint this building, they want to feel like you are there to be a part of their community, of their family.
[00:13:27] So it's not it is not just a transactional exchange. And so minimum is two weeks that I've seen. But a lot of people stay three, four months. And then that, again, gives this opportunity to really integrate into the world and the work
[00:13:43] Kym: That is so cool. Do you have to pay anything? Is there like a
[00:13:47] Shannel: You pay, yeah, a one-year membership fee I think is maybe 60 bucks, and then you have access to every single location in the world. You can learn like wine making in Italy and learn how to make wine, and you work there for 20 hours a week. So a huge variety of jobs one can do.
[00:14:06] Kym: That is so cool. I'm thinking of my nephew. He's getting ready to graduate, and he's like, "I don't wanna go to college yet." You know? Like, oh my
[00:14:12] Shannel: that is the perfect one cause you're, you're giving in the accountability and the responsibility piece, but you're also getting yeah, the, the financial freedom to then kind of choose how you live the rest of the hours that you have to play and to have fun and to, yeah
[00:14:29] Kym: So cool. did you ever go to a place that felt weird or, like, unsafe or uncomfortable or anything, or was it always just, like, these wonderful people and
[00:14:38] Shannel: Yeah. They, they have reviews, so we definitely, whether it's Airbnb or Workaway, we are s- like, we have high standards for making sure who we're gonna be around or our sleeping arrangement is, like, clean, has, you know, at least two beds for the four of us. And so the reviews, you know, really, really help out of who you're gonna be staying with.
[00:14:59] Kym: Could like your husband go and do work while you still saw clients or does everybody there have to contribute? I mean, ob- obviously not the kids, but do all the adults have to contribute? Okay
[00:15:11] Shannel: Typically it's that. I mean, the other option I guess we could have asked her is, can my husband work 40 hours a week and I work zero? That would
[00:15:18] Kym: Oh, that's an idea.
[00:15:20] Shannel: Yeah, and I think you'll see also depending on the person who's, you're working with, you really get a sense even based on their profile, how flexible they are versus how rigid they are.
[00:15:32] And so that's just something you would quickly find out with how they talk about their, the work that is required
[00:15:39] Kym: Gosh, that is so interesting. I can't wait to go, like, just peruse that website and see what
[00:15:44] Shannel: Oh, man.
[00:15:45] Kym: neat. Yeah.
[00:15:46] Shannel: Chocolate making. I mean, there's, there's everything.
[00:15:50] Kym: Oh my gosh, that's so neat. Okay. And then I, I would assume you're not, you're responsible for your own travel to get there if,
[00:15:57] you know, it's in a different country or something like that. Yeah. Okay
[00:16:00] Shannel: absolutely. And the f- the 10 hours a week that I'm able to work is also because of kind of our philosophy around money, where because we live very minimalistically, for three years we've been living off of two suitcases. We can just-- We're not collecting things along the way. So that's one way we make sure that we use points to get to where we need on an airplane.
[00:16:25] So that is, is a huge part of why travel I think is expensive. And then really, like, a little work goes a long way. If we can, we're gonna take a b- a bus rather than take an Uber. We hang our own laundry. We do work exchange. So these little ways really do make an impact in how much we actually need to live.
[00:16:45] We cook 90% of our own meals and just being open to ask people if they're flexible for their, even their Airbnb prices. "Are you flexible on staying a bit longer?" And people are. So those are kind of our ways that we've made sure to stay in this budget, even though I don't like that word, because we're not on a strict budget.
[00:17:06] We're just really specific about what we're choosing to live with and what is the gain from it, which is time with our kids, which is quality food over clothes, things like that.
[00:17:21] Kym: Mm-hmm. That's amazing. Now, so how old are the kids now? You mentioned like one and
[00:17:26] four, but I guess they're, that was
[00:17:28] Shannel: Yeah. Now they're-- yeah, I'd be my future self, I think, would be surprised that we're living this lifestyle. And they are four and seven now. And after that year of travel, the intention was to go back to the Bay Area, but it would've, I think, limited us to go back to that life. And so we decided to move forward and travel and hunker down, and we're currently in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico a beautiful mountain expat city but still a lot of culture and vibrancy.
[00:18:00] And we've been here for two years and put the kids in school. They are now fluent in Spanish, and I often ask them to translate things for me. And yeah, it's worked really, really well. And the beautiful thing is you don't feel like a, kind of a, like you're doing anything really brave because when you come into these cities, you meet people doing exactly the same thing as you, who have the same philosophies and ideas.
[00:18:24] And where others might say like, "Wow, you know, you must be so brave for doing this." And really, again, it's kind of about choice, what you can tolerate, and also along the years of doing this, really realizing how adaptable we are and using our creativity and our resources, internal resources to keep going even when it gets hard, 'cause there's definitely hard moments.
[00:18:48] Kym: Yes, for sure. We could, we could talk about some of those that you've encountered and overcome. But I was super curious about the kids and, you know, what they're
[00:18:56] doing with school and stuff. did you then get like residency in Mexico? Like, are you citizens of Mexico now, or how
[00:19:02] Shannel: Not... Yeah, w- we have temporary residency. Once you get the second year, you go back in two years, we come back in two years, and then we would get permanent residency. So it's kind of a lengthy process. So we have the two-year residency right now. And yeah, we kind of based around l- location, like where are we gonna move by researching schools and what looked interesting and kind of using that as the focal point and then searching around that of, oh, we like the school.
[00:19:33] Now let's expand it. Do we actually like the town? Does it have stores that we can eat organically or whatever else might come? So the kind of central focus always has been around school and then expanding from there, and that's how we chose this location. So they attend a, a very humble inner-city Waldorf school here in Mexico.
[00:19:54] Kym: Yeah, I was just gonna ask, is it like a public school or are there like private expat schools? Just I
[00:19:59] Shannel: Yeah. Private expat schools. And even with that, like we can still afford, you know, this school for them that's a private school and, and live this life with still 10 hours a week, which is really amazing. Our-- My kids have classes, a drumming class, and a personal art teacher, and swimming class, and my son does break dancing class.
[00:20:21] So it affords us the opportunity to actually try out a bunch of things where I think back in the States, we'd be limited given how expensive one class is to just kind of stick with one thing at a time. And um, another example of how there is diversity in even what us as adults and for our kids we have access to.
[00:20:44] Kym: Are you in an Airbnb there or how are you, how are you living? Like how did you decide where to live and are you renting? Like how, what was that process like? Especially with
[00:20:53] Shannel: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Kym: You know, I know you don't like budget, but like with the, with the cost of living that you're trying to stay
[00:20:57] Shannel: Yes,
[00:20:58] Kym: Yeah
[00:20:59] Shannel: sure. So then after that year of moving around and traveling, which was purely Airbnb then we decided we knew we were gonna stay in this town for at least a year. So when we arrived, we got an Airbnb for two weeks, and then got someone to help us look for a place.
[00:21:15] And my husband walked the streets and looked for signs that, of places for rent, and eventually we found this place and signed a one-year lease.
[00:21:25] Kym: Wow.
[00:21:26] Shannel: yeah, and that fully furnished, included Wi-Fi and cable and was even l- less than half the cost of how much our apartment was in San Francisco. But still for the local Mexicans, when they hear how much it is, like, "You paid that much in rent?"
[00:21:45] And so this place where it feels strange when you've come from a place and they've come from a particular place of how do, you know, everything is relative. But kind of staying in a budget where because we're comfortable in smaller spaces, we didn't need much, that as long as a place had kind of some of the basic things and was clean and modern enough, then we, we were good, and we can adapt.
[00:22:11] Kym: That's amazing. And, is it like enough bedrooms for everybody or are the kids sharing, like
[00:22:16] Shannel: Yeah, two bedrooms, two bath in the heart of, the city, and we don't have a car. So we also based our, where we're gonna be living to be walking distance from school and to be close enough to the tiendas and the stores so that we don't have to, yeah, purchase a car, which of course cuts down on things as well.
[00:22:39] Kym: That's amazing. Yeah.
[00:22:41] So do you think this'll be like, where you're gonna stay or will you guys, or do you have plans to go somewhere else to another country or, or to continue to sort of culturally expand and learn how you were doing before, especially with the kids? Curious about
[00:22:55] Shannel: Yeah, so we-- we're actually leaving San Miguel for good in three weeks. Um, And that-- I know. I have very mixed feelings about it 'cause we've built such a strong community of friends here and love the lifestyle, and the kids adore their school and their teachers. and it's not for the reason that we're leaving that we want to explore new places, but more so because this town that is beautiful and colonial really is lacking in nature.
[00:23:22] And given the age that our kids are in we're craving for them to be barefoot, to be a bit more free, to be wild, and to explore themselves in that way. And one of the hardest parts of living this lifestyle is being away from our family who's in California, our parents and our siblings. And so we're leaving San Miguel a bit earlier so we can extend our summer in California to be with our family.
[00:23:49] And then in August, we decided to move to a tiny beach town in Nicaragua called San Juan del Sur. So
[00:23:58] Kym: There. Oh my gosh. I love it there. Yes
[00:24:02] Shannel: we've never been, and just like San Miguel, we kind of just did some research and talked to people on Facebook and decided to just go without seeing it. So we trust that with what we've learned along the way, that this change will be-- we can adapt to it as well, I guess.
[00:24:20] Kym: Oh my gosh, it's gorgeous there. Oh
[00:24:22] Shannel: Is it? Okay.
[00:24:23] Kym: You're like, "I know, I know, I know it's gonna be..." It, it's amazing. I mean, the surfing and just, yeah, it's so great, the ocean, and yeah, it's amazing. How cool is that? So what do the kids think? Are the kids like, "This is exciting," or are they like, "We don't wanna go"?
[00:24:39] Shannel: Yeah. Yeah, we talk about that frequently with them, my seven-year-old especially because he has made solid friends here, and he says he has mixed feelings. I think just like all of us, a bit sad, a bit very excited. We showed him what Nicaragua has to offer, what the school is gonna be like that he's gonna attend, and his eyes just lit up because of the nature.
[00:25:06] And he's ready to catch frogs. He wants to see the three-toed sloth. So he's excited. And also, I think what we're all feeling or what Pema Chödrön says in one of her quotes is, "Fear is the natural reaction to moving towards the truth." And I feel like as we're moving towards this truth that we are exiting here, I'm feeling some of that doubt come in, the fear a little bit.
[00:25:31] And then again, reminding myself like this is the pattern that shows up and to not attach to that too much.
[00:25:37] Kym: that's amazing. And I, I know you said, "Well, people say it's brave. It's really not." But it, it, to me, it just sounds like unbelievably amazing that you're doing that, especially with the kids, you know? For them to be able to go and experience that life. That's so
[00:25:51] Shannel: And I think a lot of people often kind of ask us, like, "Where are you gonna land? And where's gonna be your home?" And it's a good question, and I don't-- I think we're really living year to year to kind of see what best suits our family at the moment. And so at this moment, they are at the age where I think they're needing more room and space to play and find themselves in kind of connection with nature.
[00:26:17] So year to year, and you know, my son asked the other day, "How long are we staying in Nicaragua?" And I said, "We're gonna check in with all of us and see how, how we liked it when it gets closer to the year, and we'll, we'll take everyone's opinions into account and see what's next."
[00:26:33] Kym: That's amazing. So the plan right now is do a full year while you're
[00:26:36] Shannel: Do a full year. Yeah, I think ideally two years because our plan with San Miguel was a year, but realized a year we just kind of got our footing. We've made our friends, we've really found a rhythm after a year that we're like, "All right, another year feels right." So yeah, kind of see after a year again, if another year of, of me, my goal is to learn how to skateboard and to learn how to surf.
[00:27:02] And so
[00:27:03] Kym: I love
[00:27:04] Shannel: let's see how much I can, I can do in a year.
[00:27:07] Kym: Oh my gosh, how fun is that? Wow. And then your husband, what does, what does he, like, do right now? You're the breadwinner, I guess, so to speak. Does he, like, like,
[00:27:17] Shannel: Yeah.
[00:27:17] Kym: The kids and all of that? Like, kind of that role? Does he ever miss working, or does he wish he could have something remote?
[00:27:24] Shannel: He jokes that Chanel is my retirement fund because I will do therapy forever. I love what I do. And so, he-- Yeah, that's been the biggest change from the hustle of both of us, like me with the kids eight hours a day, him working eight hours a day. He'd come home straight after work, five minutes.
[00:27:43] Like, I fed the kids. I, you know, did this, and he's like, "Great." I'd see two clients in the other room. He's keeping them quiet and feeding them dinner. We'd see each other at eight PM. So this has been a drastic change in our lives where he is picking up and dropping off. The moms at the school are like, "Oh, you're Chanel.
[00:28:03] I did not know that you, you don't show up here often." I'm like, "Yeah, he does all of that," all the grocery shopping. He is, Yeah. And so his part-time kind of project that he's able to pursue because of this life that we live is this Substack writing that he's been doing that has been really fun, where we're integrating some psychology and the importance of travel for building and growing personally and how it's kind of a fast track to growing oneself outside of talk therapy, which I clearly believe in and see clients in, and that this is just an additional support that people can, can use that is more hands-on and more connected to get outside of ourselves, which I think so many of us just stay in our heads to kind of figure out the problem rather than go out into the real world and see what it's like to break your social anxiety by talking to people, strangers on the street, and things that we're a bit more comfortable doing, I think, when we're abroad a little bit than, than if you were to do these experiments at home.
[00:29:10] Kym: I love that. And what's the name of the Substack? I know you said you'd send me the link, but,
[00:29:14] Shannel: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:15] Kym: people
[00:29:15] Shannel: It's Go Unpacked.
[00:29:17] Kym: Go Unpacked. Okay. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's amazing. Oh my gosh, you guys are an inspiration, I swear.
[00:29:25] Shannel: Thank you. And yeah, I wanna do a, a little kind of shout-out to, you know, when we were talking about how travel is a catalyst for, for change, for growth, for understanding yourself, for gaining perspective of what is important in life and things. I said, "Is anyone else doing this?" And I came across this wonderful organization called Travel Through Trauma, and it is this woman and founder, Ashraf, who created an organization to help underprivileged young adults who've had trauma, and she incorporates travel, a solo two-week trip, and mental health support and wellness support for 12 weeks to support underprivileged young adults, and again, uses travel as the last bit to integrate their trauma, which is really fascinating and very kind of different way, again, to look at how we, move through trauma. Yeah.
[00:30:22] Kym: That's amazing. Oh, I need to connect with her. Maybe have her come on the podcast. That's so
[00:30:27] Shannel: Yes. Oh, I, I would imagine she would love it. Yeah
[00:30:31] Kym: Oh my gosh, that, that's incredible. Yeah, and before we even hit record, we were talking a little bit about like, just experientially, like how, like living and how just travel and the obstacles and all of that, how it just can help you adapt and learn and live your life in a different way. Like that, that's amazing. been your observations around all that? I mean, we've touched on it a little bit, but just anything else you
[00:30:53] wanna add about that?
[00:30:55] Shannel: Yeah, I have found that we are all at certain points in our gon- in our lives are absolutely gonna be faced with grief, with uncertainty, with change. and if we can kind of like travel as a really fun way to start to relate to these things so that we know how to be in them, how to build our resiliency, how to soften, how to be at ease, and really give ourselves permission to explore these things rather than hide from them.
[00:31:33] And again, when we're put into settings through travel where we are challenged, at least we're challenged in a fun way, if we can see that as fun and figure things out and build accountability recognize our resourcefulness and our creativity that we all have then we really start to-- Those limiting beliefs start to fall back a little bit and we're growing in this way where it really does shape how we view the world, how we view ourselves, how, how we remove ourselves from being the center of everything, and instead get these larger pictures of what, what it means to be human in this world and really like how to be in the suffering which is inevitable for all of us.
[00:32:21] And so specifically for me, my mom is from Iran, moved to the States when she was in her 20s. My dad is Romanian Roma. Roma, typically people kind of know more as Gypsy. So I come from a nomadic ancestry where my Gypsy ancestors have traveled and oftentimes by force or by oppression. So when my parents moved to the States for a better life, I almost feel like it would be a disservice not to be out in the world where I have the privilege of choice to do that, rather than my ancestors who potentially didn't from my Roma roots and had to be forced or displaced out from their home.
[00:33:06] So I kinda see it as kind of an honor to be able to have the privilege to be challenged in this way where I have a choice. And the choice to challenge myself is essentially the choice to my path of like the travel becoming the path towards identifying kind of what is important given my family history.
[00:33:30] Kym: Oh my gosh, that is beautiful.
[00:33:32] Shannel: yeah.
[00:33:32] Kym: Yeah. It's so amazing that you have a partner that it sounds like feels the same way and, you know, has the same values and that you guys have come to this together. I think it's just amazing, and it sounds like you're making it work in such a beautiful way.
[00:33:46] Shannel: Yeah, I do feel really lucky that we're aligned in so many ways that way and that who you pick as a partner is probably the most important choice you make in your life. And so yeah, that is one place that I, I'm constantly grateful for, and especially when I see couples that I see in my therapy practice just these reminders of what it is that is important in, in the, you know, success of a relationship.
[00:34:15] Yeah.
[00:34:15] Kym: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today to just share your story. I think it's really gonna inspire a lot of people
[00:34:23] Shannel: Thank you. Yeah, I hope if anyone has any questions or any thoughts or comments, I'd love to connect with anyone who might be interested and exchange thoughts or... Yeah, and I've created, I think, a, a little travel therapy niche that you'll see on my website where I'm, kind of using and supporting individuals who might want to go down the path of travel and find their way back to themselves through travel.
[00:34:48] And so that's something I've, I've just started and kind of playing around with and, you know, kind of seeing where that goes.
[00:34:54] Kym: Amazing. And where do people find you if they wanna reach out?
[00:34:57] Shannel: Yeah, it'll be my website is Therapy with Chanel.
[00:35:02] Kym: Okay,
[00:35:03] easy. Yeah. and it's S-H-A-N-N-E-L,
[00:35:06] right?
[00:35:07] Shannel: yeah. absolutely.
[00:35:08] Kym: That's amazing. Are you on Instagram or anything? I was just thinking I
[00:35:11] Shannel: We have a Go Impact page,
[00:35:14] Kym: Oh, you do? Okay.
[00:35:15] Shannel: of our travels and the
[00:35:17] Kym: Yes, I'd love to.
[00:35:19] Shannel: yeah,
[00:35:20] Kym: I love doing these
[00:35:21] Shannel: is there.
[00:35:22] Kym: Oh, it is? Oh, very
[00:35:24] cool. I wanna go check it out for sure. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for sharing that, and thanks for coming.
[00:35:30] And you guys, everything will be in the show notes if you wanna reach out to Chanell.