Working inside a prison as a therapist is not something most clinicians ever picture for themselves. But for Ana Godoy, it turned out to be one of the most humbling, eye-opening experiences of her career.
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Ana, a bilingual social worker and licensed clinician based in Southern California, to talk about what led her to take a contract role inside a California state prison, what the work actually looked like day to day, and how that leap eventually opened doors she never expected. If you've ever thought about doing something completely outside your clinical comfort zone, this one is for you.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Ana Godoy:
Website https://mifortaleza.us/
Website https://allthingslatina.com/
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The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
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Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. I'm excited for our guest today. You guys know I try to bring a wide variety of guests, and we have Anna Godoy here with us today. She's got a little bit of a different traveling therapist story, and even before we hit record, we were trying to, like...
[00:00:17] We were thinking, like, "Well, how can we tie this into, like, being a traveling therapist and all that?" So I think you guys are gonna find it interesting.
[00:00:24] Anna, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. And I always start out with that question. Like, how'd you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:34] Ana: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here too. I'm a little nervous,
[00:00:38] Kym: That's okay,
[00:00:39] Ana: trying to conquer the, those jitters. I was here in Southern California for twenty-five years as a social worker, then got licensed, and then that's when I started, you know, looking around and saying, you know, " I really can go after my dream job," which I always wanted to travel around when I was younger, but because of, you know, being a single parent and, trying to be in a career and be stable and have benefits and retirement and all that, I, I really couldn't just get up and go.
[00:01:13] However, about three years ago a couple different things happened around the same time in my life, my personal life. And so, you know, the license came around and I said, "You know what? Maybe I need to get out of my current environment so that I can continue to grow as a person, as a professional." And so I didn't wanna do any drastic changes and like leave the state because I really, really love California.
[00:01:39] So I looked, you know, where else can I go? And I ended up actually being recruited by a contractor that works providing mental health services in the correctional setting. And so, yes, it was a totally different field, a totally different population to work with. But I ended up in Northern California working at CMF, which is a California medical facility, which is like the hospital prison of California.
[00:02:08] Kym: Oh my
[00:02:08] Ana: So yeah, totally different population 'cause I had been working with, families, kids, school districts for those twenty-five years, and then now going into like kind of a medium minimum security prison and, hearing their stories and the sadness and a lot of bad things that, we have to deal with, So it was a totally, totally different experience, but it was very humbling.
[00:02:35] Kym: That's really interesting, yeah. Could you tell us a story maybe about, like, an incarcerated individual that really, like, impacted you? Or maybe even, like, how did you decide you wanted to work with incarcerated individuals? 'Cause to me that seems scary. I actually had a job in, in an agency when I worked, like, for an agency, like bachelor's level, and they made me, like, the prison liaison.
[00:02:55] Like, I don't know how I got this job, but I... 'Cause I specialize in substance abuse. they were like, "You're gonna be the prison liaison." So I'm like this 20-something, you know, like, right out of school, and I'm, like, having to go into the prison and I, you know, I don't think they were, like, murderers on that level.
[00:03:10] They were more like, it was like the county jail more. But still, I remember it, you know, evaluating for schizophrenia, like, just people that were just, like, not on meds or anything. Like, it was like baptism by fire, like they would say, you know? It I still remember it. It was, like, scary.
[00:03:25] Like, I, I think back now, I'm like, I was pretty brave to just, like, hop in there and just do this. Like, I knew nothing about what I was doing. that's me, like, getting off on a tangent. But just, like, did you have something happen that made you wanna work with incarcerated people, or you just thought it'd be super interesting?
[00:03:40] Ana: I have been fascinated by the correctional system for a long time, just, you know, how it works and, like, crime and deviancy and, you know, delinquency. I mean, I worked at group homes when I was younger. I was in the juvenile hall for a little bit. But I also... I did go up there and work at the county for one year and then the prison the next year.
[00:04:02] But I honestly was like you. I didn't really know exactly what I was getting into because I had never been in a prison or visited or have ever even been arrested and, like, thrown in a jail cell. So all of this was foreign to me. But, you know, at the point that I was at in my life, I was like, "You know what?
[00:04:19] I need excitement. I need something new. I need novelty. I- I'm tired of the, you know, humdrum, monotonous life." And so I signed up and, yeah, once I got there and realized, like, you are working with murderers and horrific crimes that they've committed. And so I think I started panicking the first day was already on site. And so they said, you know, "You're gonna do groups. All groups, right? No individuals." So it was pretty intimidating, you know, to have, you know, eight Grown men, sometimes 14 some of them are, are, are like their stature is like a football player to, you know, a guy that's nerdy and looks like a librarian.
[00:05:02] But so when you get in there though, and you actually do the work, they're just people that are hurting. And so, basically I fit in. You know, people were like, " Are you scared? Are... You know, do you..." And I would say, "No, it's... I kind of feel at home
[00:05:15] Kym: I kinda
[00:05:15] Ana: in some way." Yeah. In some way I feel... Because, um, be- just being a non-judgmental presence and being around people that, you know, have learned, not all of them, but there is a lot that they have regret, and they have changed their thinking about, life and how precious it is and know, they made mistakes.
[00:05:39] But so you do deal with a lot of depression and sad feelings and regrets and anger. You know, right now actually there's a really high number of suicides and uh, cellie murders, which is, you know, the two, two guys living within the same cell. it's overcrowded. I mean, it was just an eye-opener to be in there in this locked facility and see the day-to-day stuff where I had zero idea of, you know, working my regular nine-to-five job for so many years, no idea about what's going on in these facilities, institutions.
[00:06:11] Kym: Yeah, yeah. I, I remember, you know, from a social worker perspective, you're an LMHC, but I'm sure you got the same type of training, like, just like a systems perspective. I remember thinking that myself like, the system is so screwed up. It's like, yeah, okay, they made one mistake.
[00:06:27] Like, let's... Like, how can we rehabilitate? Like, I remember having that, like, sort of, you know, young mental health advocacy type feeling about it. You know, like, like I wanna change the system, and, you know, I guess I learned that you really, it's hard, it's hard to change something like that. So how do you help them cope? but I hear you with that. So, so you liked it. I mean, that's interesting.
[00:06:49] Ana: I did. I did. And like I said, it was a, an eye-opening experience because Like let's just say I played a video of like resiliency and making the best out of your situation and, then I'd look over and I'd see this guy that was like 6'4", 300 pounds, looked like a football player, with tears streaming down his eyes. And so I knew that deep down some of them had been impacted
[00:07:12] And, you know, others not, but for the ones that were open and were healing and were processing or had been processing, 'cause some of the guys, I remember one of them saying he had been there for forty-five years. Another guy was on death row in San Quentin and had been transferred to CMF where I was at.
[00:07:33] So they all have different stories but yeah, just seeing that though there's still you know, hurting, unprocessed traumas that would come to surface in the groups and they would be vulnerable and, you know, share a little bit about what happened and so that's why I'm saying it was, it was just a learning, a huge, huge I say like a spiritual education, you know, that you, you can't get it from a book.
[00:07:57] It's like these are real life in vivo experiences that touch you and, you know, you take that with you.
[00:08:03] Kym: Yeah, that, that's so interesting. you know, before we hit record we were chit-chatting about this a little bit, but it's interesting. So it's, if somebody's listening to this, like I know it's probably, maybe it's different in every state how this operates or works, but if somebody's like, "Yeah, that's my calling, like, I want to be working in the prison system," that sort of thing.
[00:08:22] how did the recruiter thing work? And then you had mentioned before we hit record that, like, there's contract lengths with this stuff. So you do, like, contracts. And then we were talking about, like in California, for example, you could literally transfer from institution to institution if, say, you wanted to maybe just travel all around California as a traveling therapist and, you know, live and work in different places. Like, that is actually a viable option for somebody that might wanna do something like that.
[00:08:50] Ana: Yes, absolutely. There are a lot of recruiting companies out there because what the prison system here in California has done is that they are using contractors, for their mental health services. There are still some state employees, clinicians that do provide services and that are state employees, right?
[00:09:10] But they do use a lot of the contractors to fill in gaps or just, you know, to find like the, the employee pool that they're needing. And so, that's how I ended up finding or coming across this contractor.
[00:09:25] And because you're not a state employee, and there are some downsides of being with the contractor, for example, a lot of them don't pay vacation hours, they don't pay holidays, the health benefits are not as good as being a direct state employee. But the rate is very good.
[00:09:41] times, like with me, there was a relocation incentive. So when I looked at the whole package together you know, I said, "Yeah, this is, this is the change that I'm looking for," I think. And so went up north, but from there, when that contract was over you know, I could have...
[00:09:56] I could go to San Quentin, I could go to Stockton, I could go to San Luis Obispo, different Tehachapi, you know, in the mountains. So different cities and, you know, still get that, correctional counseling that I enjoyed, but also kind of, like I said, the novelty effect of be- just being in a new place, new people, new environment.
[00:10:17] So it is, an exciting opportunity for someone who can just, take that leap and is very versatile, where they can just get up and move and, So yeah, it was a whole different experience than being the career person I had been. But yeah, it was... it's, it's also a lot of fun.
[00:10:33] Kym: Yeah, that's very cool, and especially if you're, like, totally comfortable with it and you like the work. I mean, why not? So how long is a typical contract with, this type of thing? Like, six
[00:10:42] Ana: Th- yeah, six months to a year. And then what...
[00:10:46] Kym: or they just have different,
[00:10:47] Ana: Yeah.
[00:10:47] Kym: available?
[00:10:48] Ana: Yeah, you work with the recruiter to kind of let them know what you're looking for. They let you know what they have open. They have, prisons. They have, like, intensive outpatient programs. They have other facilities. They have like working from home for workers' compensation.
[00:11:03] So there's... The recruiting company has a lot of different contracts. And so once you're in with the company, then you can go on their dashboard and see what's open, maybe go to an area that you want to go to see if there's anything there. Like, I know at San Quentin, right, you know, they're hiring a lot of clinicians because they have this whole, like, revamping of their approach to rehabilitation.
[00:11:27] So they're having, like, a lot of classes and different groups going and so, yeah, San Quentin was on the dashboard when I was mid- in between contracts to, to go to a different place.
[00:11:38] Kym: That's amazing. So how do you find a recruiter for that? I mean, just Google, like, mental health prison recruiters? I
[00:11:47] Ana: You know, what I did was I went on Indeed, and I put a resume up there.
[00:11:51] Kym: Oh, okay. And then somebody found you. Okay, and then you kinda got into the recruiting system or whatever.
[00:11:57] Ana: Yes. And what's going on too in California, because there's such a shortage of therapists, and I think it's nationwide, but definitely in California that it's kind of like a r- a mini recruiting war
[00:12:08] Kym: Oh.
[00:12:10] Ana: like, I'm s- I'll still be contacted by other recruiters even though I'm already in a contract and, you know, "Just, just an FYI, when that contract's up, you know, do you wanna come and work for the school district?
[00:12:20] Or do you want to come and work, you know, for just a different entity that is needing clinicians ASAP?"
[00:12:27] Kym: So when you say... And, and please tell me if you don't wanna s- say, but when you say, like, if they pay a pretty good rate, like, what are we talking? Like, is it, like, hourly or is it, like, a, like, a compensation package, like, we'll pay you, 50,000 for the next three months or six months or whatever? Like, how do they pay?
[00:12:44] Ana: You know, the recruiting companies pay you... From my experience and from me talking with other clinicians that were also in this recruitment market, it seems like they mostly pay the hourly.
[00:12:57] some of the contracts include benefits, some of them do not. It kind of depends on, like, what you negotiate and how much they, they need you maybe.
[00:13:05] But so around, I would say, like, the first company I was with, it was almost 60 an hour, but then the second company I was with was 75 an hour.
[00:13:14] Kym: Okay, gotcha.
[00:13:16] Ana: Yeah. And, you know, they both included benefits a little bit of sick hours. So You know, that kind of a, of a job kind of, I think, works well for if you have your own benefits,
[00:13:29] you know, because there is, it, it just seemed like it would work for so maybe somebody that had a spouse that has benefits and, a stable job and then kind of doing the, this type of work because you can, you know, make very good money right away.
[00:13:44] And then they also take a lot of clinicians that are not experienced and have no background in forensics. It's pretty easy to get into.
[00:13:54] Kym: Now, do you have to be a California resident for something like that, or do you think they're, like, recruiting from other states, or do you not know? I, yeah, it's kind of a weird question.
[00:14:02] Ana: I don't know if I came across somebody from another state. What I do know that they're doing though, because again, of shortages, is like they're doing telehealth with psychiatry from out of state. And I know that they are still doing a lot of telehealth for just clinicians.
[00:14:18] Kym: Oh, that's interesting.
[00:14:20] Ana: in some of the positions you don't have to be on site.
[00:14:23] Kym: Oh, well, that's interesting. Yeah, that makes it a lot more flexible.
[00:14:28] Ana: Yeah, and, you know, for me it was different because since I was doing only psychoeducational groups, clinical groups, I had to be there because, you know, it's not so effective, telehealth with group, the group format.
[00:14:40] Kym: Yeah, it's a little bit hard.
[00:14:42] Ana: Yeah, to manage all of that. But so being on site, you know, for me it was, you know, a requirement because of doing groups. But I, I also liked being on site.
[00:14:51] Kym: Yeah, a lot of therapists do. A lot of therapists do. They're like, "No, I wanna sit in the room with my client." Me? Never. I would never wanna do that, but there are a lot of therapists that want to, for sure. Yeah. Wow,
[00:15:05] Ana: so yeah, I was there. I was there in the trenches, you know?
[00:15:08] Kym: Yeah, that's awesome. I think this is super interesting. People listening might be like, "Wow, I'm gonna go look for a, a prison recruiter right away and see if they can find something." It's really interesting.
[00:15:19] Ana: Oh, yeah. It was a total, total different experience than what I, you know, have had, so...
[00:15:25] Kym: Yeah. And then since then, you've left, you've left the prison system, right? And are you just all private practice now? Or
[00:15:33] Ana: am, I am doing private practice with... Again, there's a whole bunch of agencies out there that are like, you know, private practice management companies, So you sign on with them, and they bring-- they give you all the referrals, but they take their cut. so that's what I'm doing right now, but I am trying to break into a couple different new opportunities.
[00:15:56] And I think a lot of it has to do with where I'm at emotionally, where I need newness, I need novelty, I need something that's gonna excite me. And
[00:16:06] Kym: get it. I get bored really easy.
[00:16:11] Ana: yeah, I, I need to be resuscitated, you know, back to life. So, one of the things that I'm doing is becoming, doing, I have this company that I've started, and it's, you know, still in the beginning phases.
[00:16:21] But I'm trying to become more of an advocate and social worker through this independent facilitator role that the California Regional Center System has implemented, which is called um, Self-Determination Program.
[00:16:37] And so it's basically being kind of like a social worker but kind of like through the family, through the consumer, through the client. And so it's kind of like the job I had before, but now instead of being employed by the actual regional center, it's more of like being employed by the family.
[00:16:55] Kym: That is so interesting.
[00:16:57] Ana: It is. It is a totally different way of doing s- you know, work and services. But sometimes, and what I'm noticing too as a trend is people being more involved and engaged in their own treatment and also having that authority over their funds.
[00:17:16] Kym: Oh, the, the families you mean, like they, like they've got control of the, disability, whatever funding is, is support... Gotcha.
[00:17:24] Ana: So it gives them a little bit more authority, more autonomy, more choice. And so that's kind of like what I'm trying to tap into. And then another thing that I'm also looking into is uh, 3D printing, which has absolutely nothing to do with people,
[00:17:38] Kym: Well, let's hear about it. I love stuff like that. I bought a 3D printer one time for my nephews, and they did make some really cool stuff from that.
[00:17:47] Ana: Yes, you can make amazing things. And so that's what I'm saying, like at this point where I'm emotionally, spiritually personally, professionally, I have this like energy of looking into things that I may not have of before because of, like I said, being, you know, an average middle income taxpaying American citizen.
[00:18:09] Now, you know, I have more liberties. I retired from my previous job, and so now I'm more of like a freelancer, and so I started seeing these 3D printers and like some of the little, you know, cute little novelty things that they were printing and like some people are making, you know, businesses out of it.
[00:18:27] And I've always kind of been a creative, artsy person too. And so I bought one. I'm waiting for it to get here, but, you know, I'm like excited like a kid. I keep checking outside to see like is the b- box there, is my box there?
[00:18:39] Kym: Yeah. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, that's
[00:18:42] Ana: So we'll see.
[00:18:43] Kym: I love that. I'm super creative like that too. I, I just like to make things, you know?
[00:18:48] Ana: Yes. Yes. And so it's kind of like self-care too for us,
[00:18:51] Kym: Yeah. So the, the business with the families, like the incarcerated families, was that the consulting you were talking about? I know before we hit record we were talking about, like, consulting. Is that what you were talking about, or is there some other, like, consulting thing you're doing on top of that?
[00:19:05] Ana: No, the consulting has nothing to do with the prison. It's more of um, working with developmentally disabled families, which is what I was doing way before.
[00:19:15] Kym: Okay, cool. That's very cool.
[00:19:18] Ana: So it's being kind of like a social worker that's hired by the family to advocate on their behalf to work for them. But no, it has nothing to do with the prison.
[00:19:27] The consulting is just helping people navigate systems, here in California, like special education the regional center system accessing services and then, you know, the whole like appealing denials from resources, county programs. So it's a lot of work and information to know for parents that are, totally unfamiliar with these systems.
[00:19:51] Kym: So interesting. Part of this podcast we always, like, talk about entrepreneurial-type stuff, so how... With that consulting thing, is that, like, something, like, you're still able to, like y- they can use their insurance somehow? Or is it, like, a private pay, like, like a retainer, and here's the services, I'll help you navigate until you reach this goal kinda thing?
[00:20:09] Or like, how... like, how does that work? I'm curious.
[00:20:12] Ana: the way that it works is it's exclusive to the regional center system.
[00:20:16] so in California, developmentally disabled Californians are served by, they're called the Regional Centers of California.
[00:20:25] Okay, so just like you have the mental health system and you have the educational system, and you have the correctional system, the system that is responsible to serve developmentally disabled Californians is the regional center system, which is a huge system. they are the ones that f- fund i this new model of social work.
[00:20:46] Kym: I see. That's really interesting. So you're, like, a consultant, and they would reach out to you and say, " Oh, well, we have Anna. She's a consult- she's bilingual." We had, we'd shared that her. "She's bilingual and knows everything about navigating the prison system," you know, when you're, when you can't advocate for your loved one or something like that.
[00:21:04] So they would connect you. Or your loved one is autistic or something, and neurodivergent in the prison system. Like, she knows everything about how to navigate that. No? No.
[00:21:13] Ana: 'cause it has nothing to do with the
[00:21:14] Kym: Nothing. Okay, nothing to do with the prison system.
[00:21:16] Ana: But everything else, everything else you just said was on point, but it's with the regional, it's with the regional center system,
[00:21:23] Kym: Gotcha. Okay.
[00:21:25] Ana: not the prison system. Yeah. So basically that's what it is. It's like, you know, this family has an autistic- child and they're confused and they don't know where to go.
[00:21:34] How do I get therapy? Who's gonna help us? He's out of control. maybe we have to have the, you know, we had to call the police on him because he became violent. We don't know, you know. Then he, you know what? Ana Godoy, she's an independent facilitator. She's bilingual. She has worked with this regional center giant system.
[00:21:52] She worked there for 25 years as a, as an employee. Now she has her own private, independent facilitator company.
[00:22:00] Kym: That's amazing.
[00:22:01] Ana: Yes. It i- it, it helps the family. Ultimately, who's the one that benefits from all of this is the, is the client because they get to stay at home with their family where they're gonna be taken care of the best that they probably will be taken care of, you know.
[00:22:15] Because you know, when there's a developmental dis- disability, a lot of times they require nonstop attention and supervision and caring and so, that's the goal is to keep, you know, family members intact, prevent out-of-home placements and just, you know, make sure everybody's happy and safe.
[00:22:32] Kym: that's amazing. Yep. It's bringing me back to my autism services days. I, I worked for Autism Services Center all through, like, my bachelor's level school, and yeah, I mean, it was the same thing. It was like you're pretty much a social worker having to find all the resources to help the families and, and also respite, like, I was also a respite care for the autistic kids.
[00:22:52] Ana: are you from California?
[00:22:53] Kym: No, this was in West Virginia where I went to my undergrad in Huntington, West Virginia, and there was Autism Services Center there. And yeah, I had to do essentially the social working, but as a case manager, but also a lot of... I did a lot of the respite care 'cause it was like, you know, they paid you hourly to go sit with I was working with autistic teenagers to go sit with them and, like, fix their lunch and make sure they're not, spreading, like, one... I had one that would, like, put feces on the walls. Like, yeah, I had to, like, keep him from doing that. So just all that direct care. We were, like, direct care staff is what they called us, like respite workers.
[00:23:26] Yeah,
[00:23:27] Ana: very similar to what's here in California, which is the region- the regional center system. They are the ones that, that fund respite, they fund behavior modification programs, they fund all kinds of things for developmentally disabled Californians.
[00:23:43] Kym: That's such a smart idea. It's like, "I used to work there. I know all the ins and outs. I know everybody there. I know who you talk to if you need this, this, or this done. I'm gonna be your consultant that holds your hand through this whole maze of resources." Yeah, that's amazing.
[00:23:57] Ana: Yes. Yes. And we're called independent facilitators,
[00:24:00] but I also still do consulting with other families That are not going through that model of the self-determination, but they still want to appeal, you know, a denial for Social Security income, or they wanna appeal this other denial from the school district.
[00:24:18] So I still consult and help them, you know, just give them information and navigate through the process. But yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, be, diversifying and using this knowledge base that I already have.
[00:24:32] Kym: And that's... I mean, that is the whole point of this podcast, really. It's like take all the skills that you have. We have the most unique job in the world. We can totally create anything we want. We can be anything we want, you know, and build that life that we wanna live around, like, whatever we make ourselves into.
[00:24:48] If you wanna be a consultant, be a consultant , you know? You can do it, you know? You've got the background and the license to back it up. So that's really very inspirational to hear you talking about that.
[00:24:59] Ana: Yeah, you just have to take the leap.
[00:25:00] Kym: Yeah, just start. Just get started, see where it goes.
[00:25:03] Ana: Yes, that's what I told myself was, "You know what? just do it and see what
[00:25:07] Kym: Yeah. I love that. So how do people find you if they want to hear about your consultancy, or maybe they live in California and they need your help? Like, how do people find you to work with you or learn more about what you do?
[00:25:20] Ana: Yes. my company website, which is mifortaleza.us, and that is uh, the multi-service agency where I provide clinical services, I provide independent facilitation, I provide consultation couples counseling. So there's a couple different services that you know, you can explore and connect with me on.
[00:25:44] Then there's also the other website that I have that I really love, that I have had for, I don't know, 15, 16 years. I never did anything with it so it sat around for a while, but I'm starting to develop it more now, which is called allthingslatina.com.
[00:25:59] and that is more of just, like, the Latina lifestyle or experience here in Southern California.
[00:26:06] so I like that one 'cause you know, we, it, it's just a more of a cultural things that are happening in, in LA or in Southern California just coming from people that were born and raised here,
[00:26:17] Kym: Yeah.
[00:26:18] That's awesome. Wow, you're doing a lot of really cool stuff.
[00:26:21] Ana: I think I'm sowing my oats and making up for time
[00:26:23] Kym: Yeah.
[00:26:25] Ana: you know, uh, of, of things that I wanted to explore many, many years ago but just didn't have the time.
[00:26:30] Kym: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, 'cause you were a young mom. I read your bio. You were a young mom at 15 or...
[00:26:36] Ana: Yes, 15 years old I had my daughter, and was h- you know, just a really hard difficult experience on a lot of different levels. But you know, I was able to dig my way out of that situation with my parents' help and, you know, ended up going to college and having a pretty decent life.
[00:26:56] Kym: That's amazing. Well, thank you for taking the time today to come and share your story and inspire
[00:27:02] Ana: you for having me. I really appreciate it.