What would it take to move your therapy business and your entire family to another country?
In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I chat with Tiffany Castellanos about how she relocated her therapy business from the US to Madrid, Spain, while moving her husband and teenage son abroad. Tiffany shares how she spent two years planning the move, transitioned her in-person therapy practice to virtual sessions, and created a niche working with dentists and expats.
We also talk about the logistics of visas, running a US-based therapy business while living in Europe, and the emotional realities that come with building a completely new life in another country.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Tiffany:
Website: https://www.tiffanycastellanos.com/
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The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
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Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. We have a very interesting guest today. I think you guys are gonna love hearing Tiffany Castellano’s story. I told her I was gonna mess her name up.
[00:00:13] Tiffany, thank you for being here. And I always start out with how'd you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:21] Tiffany: Well, thank you so much for having me. And I just, I have to say this, you know at the beginning that I listened to many episodes of your podcast before I became a traveling therapist, and they were part of what gave me the courage and inspiration, hearing everyone else's story. So this is a very full circle moment that I get to actually be a guest now. So I'm so excited to be.
[00:00:39] Kym: Thank you. that makes me so happy. Like you have no idea. I'm so glad it helped you.
[00:00:44] Tiffany: It did, it did a ton. how did I become a traveling therapist? Well, my husband, I should say, is he's from Venezuela, but his family moved to Madrid, or a few members of his family moved to Madrid over 20 years ago. We've been married that whole time. So we had come to visit them over the years, several times, and we always loved it.
[00:01:05] And we would always come back from those trips and think, oh gosh. How could we live in Europe one day? We just love the lifestyle there, you know, like how the cities are walkable and everyone's out at a cafe and the pace of life just seems slower. So we always kind of like dreamed like, oh, wouldn't that be so amazing?
[00:01:24] And then like the last couple trips that we took here, and we also have a teenage son, we started really thinking more seriously about it. And I think in part because we were, you know, we're thinking if we don't do this now while he's still living, living with us at home and we wait till after he goes to college, then there'd be no chance that he would ever consider like moving here.
[00:01:44] So we thought if, if we want him to also consider living here, we need to move over sooner rather than later so he can be building his own connections and putting down some roots. Right. so we got really serious about looking into, okay, how could we do this? Like, what are the, like nuts and bolts of, of how we do this?
[00:01:59] And honestly, I mean, the first thing I did was start listening to your podcast. And I joined your, your group. And I actually reached out also to a former colleague of mine who had been friends with on Facebook, and I saw she had moved to the Netherlands and was practicing. So I reached out to her.
[00:02:16] So, you know, as therapists, we love doing our research. So I basically just started doing research and seeing would it be possible for me to work, 'cause that was sort of a deal breaker for me. I really didn't wanna have to give up my, my career, my practice.
[00:02:29] Kym: Wow. So much to, un dig. so this was in 2024, right? When you finally moved over. So how long would you say you were prepping before you made the move?
[00:02:40] Tiffany: I would say two years.
[00:02:41] Kym: Okay. Yeah, that's, that's good to know. 'cause a lot of people are like, I wanna go today. And it's like, slow down, get all your ducks in a row before you do it.
[00:02:49] 'cause it's, I mean, it's a big decision. You permanently moved. You're not just like traveling then coming back to a house in the United
[00:02:56] Tiffany: No, no. We permanently moved and, and in order to do it, to be able to afford to do it and to get the visa that we wanted, we had to sell everything. So we sold our home, we sold my husband's business we were like all in. We got a golden visa, which they no longer offer, which is also part of why we wanted to do our move sooner rather than later, because at that time it was like the final year that Spain was gonna allow golden visas, which requires you to make an investment.
[00:03:26] You have to buy personal property in Madrid. It has to be, you know, permanent. So that's what we did. And, and in order to do that, we really had to like go all in, you know? So
[00:03:35] Kym: That's amazing. So people ask this all the time, right? We know that our jobs are like portable, but you've got a husband and a son. What did you do about his, your husband's job? Like how did y'all, I don't know what he, does, did.
[00:03:48] Tiffany: He's actually a dentist, he's a big part of why I started working with dentists. so he had his own private practice and he sold that. And right now he is teaching at a university here for dentists, he's a specialist, so he's, he's a prosthodontist, so he's teaching in a master's program for dentists right now as a professor.
[00:04:05] He hopes to eventually also have his own practice again here, but he's not been able to get his license yet from the Ministry of of Education here. They're just very slow. And he, his application he submitted two years ago, so we're still waiting. so that's something we didn't anticipate.
[00:04:22] Kym: I was gonna say, did you know that ahead of time? That it might take that long, you thought will just apply? It'll be good. He'll be able to work as a
[00:04:28] Tiffany: I mean, he, he thought he did know that it, it was taking a long time, so that's why he ended up doing that. He, he, he applied six months before we even moved, thinking by the time we get there, it'll all line up perfectly. Six months. But now we're in two years, so yeah. This, we didn't anticipate. So yeah.
[00:04:46] Kym: Do you think you would've waited if you had known, or is is it working out with him, being the, professor and
[00:04:52] Tiffany: That's a good question. We, if would he, I don't know. I I wouldn't have wanted to wait. That's, I don't know. I can't answer that for him.
[00:04:58] Kym: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:59] Tiffany: yeah, but I, I think that he's. He is on, been on his own journey, right? Like a part of him has, has really enjoyed the time away from like clinical work and it's like been kind of like a unexpected sabbatical in a way.
[00:05:12] But I also think there's part of him that's like, okay, you know, it's been two years now I'm ready to, practice dentistry with patients again.
[00:05:18] Kym: Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. And then you, well, I wanna hear about your niche 'cause I think it's so interesting. So your niche is dentists and expats. Is it, dentists that are expats or
[00:05:30] Tiffany: No, but that would be, that would be cool if, if they did overlap, I would love that. That would be like a perfect, a perfect scenario. So yeah, I'll talk first about the dentists because the expats have come later. So why I decided, or how I, my niche became working with dentist is it started at home.
[00:05:47] You know, having a front row seat to what the dentistry profession actually demands and seeing not only my husband, but also other dentist friends, like what they carry in terms of the amount of stress of, you know, like clinical pressure of like complex cases or patients who have a lot of anxiety managing a team of staff.
[00:06:08] My husband had eight staff. Running a business, trying to make sure it's profitable. It's a lot and I think a lot of it to most people is very invisible. Because from the outside looking at a dentist, you, you think, oh, this is a very successful and stable, profession. And it is, but it's also, it comes with an immense amount of stress.
[00:06:29] And, you know, behind the scenes, I really saw a lot of burnout. so I started kind of looking into to research on dentists and I saw that there is an elevated rate of suicide and depression and burnout.
[00:06:43] Kym: heard that I, I read about that. Yeah. That's so interesting.
[00:06:47] Tiffany: Yeah. I think there like there there second actually in terms of suicide. And there actually was a dentist who committed suicide in our community.
[00:06:55] And so seeing that it wasn't just like anecdotal, but that it actually was something systemic got me really interested in working with dentists and you know, I was thinking, wow, dentists are these highly trained healthcare professionals that are trained to care for others, but who's caring for them. Do you know what I mean? So yeah. So that's when I
[00:07:13] Kym: for therapists, at least for therapists, we're like normalized to at least get our own therapist,
[00:07:18] Tiffany: Right, exactly. And that is not the case with dentists. There's still a fair amount of stigma and taboo among dentists for getting, in fact, I don't even on my website, I don't even say, and this is actually a tip I got from other dentists, clients, I don't even say mental health. I say wellness
[00:07:34] Kym: oh,
[00:07:35] Tiffany: mental health is too taboo still. Yeah.
[00:07:39] Kym: Wow.
[00:07:40] Tiffany: they're not gonna go for mental health, but they will go for wellness support.
[00:07:44] Kym: Gotcha. Very interesting. So, I mean, are there enough dentists in your state of licensure to fill this niche or, or have you figured out a way to like expand and,
[00:07:53] Tiffany: Well, I do, I do have a license and also in Massachusetts, but I think between Massachusetts and Florida, there's over 200,000 dentists. And honestly, I have not come across any other therapist who is specializing, working with dentists. It might be someone out there, but I, I have never heard of it and I still haven't ever heard anybody doing that.
[00:08:12] Kym: That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I mean, I guess I didn't even ask you, but I was assuming you were, you were still seeing a caseload that's back in the US and that's how you're, okay. And then so where do the expats come in? Like, let's,
[00:08:25] Tiffany: Yeah. So.
[00:08:25] Kym: how that works.
[00:08:26] Tiffany: So when I moved originally I talked to all of my clients about the fact that I was gonna be moving and my practice was mostly in person. So that was a big shift and I was really nervous. I was like, oh, are they gonna wanna go to virtual? 'cause like I said, I think most of them were very, I mean, in fact, I think all of them were in person, but occasionally we might do a virtual session if they were out of town or something.
[00:08:46] So I was nervous about that, but fortunately everybody continued with me, which I know isn't always the case. So I felt very fortunate that everyone continued was okay with doing virtual. But you know, I also, living here, I wanted to also see people in person if possible. And it wa I had to look into that and it is possible for me. And that is because Spain does not regulate psychotherapist.
[00:09:09] Kym: Okay.
[00:09:09] Tiffany: So it's not a regulated profession, so it's sort of in this gray area where anybody can come over here and call themselves a psychotherapist, which that part's not great.
[00:09:19] Kym: I didn't know that. Wow. Okay.
[00:09:22] Tiffany: So I did start seeing some expats that are living here in Spain, and in fact, they're not just where I live in Madrid. I see some people living all over the country. They have have found me.
[00:09:32] Kym: Wow, that's amazing. So it's not regulated. So this is a question that comes up in the traveling therapist Facebook all the time. You probably see it like, can I see people in in another country? And what do I do about like liability insurance and how do I protect myself? Do you have any tips or strategies around that for somebody that's listening is like, I wanna see expats in Spain.
[00:09:54] Tiffany: So I have two policies. So I have a policy that covers my clients in the US because that policy does not cover anyone that lives outside the us. So I got a separate policy and this other policy that I got actually covers me for all of, you know, UK and Europe.
[00:10:10] So, there's many countries that I can't see people in because they do regulate, like I know Germany and France does regulate psychotherapy, but, but I can see people in the UK but only telehealth, which is all I would do anyway, so I can see people telehealth in the UK and then also in person telehealth in Spain. So that policy that I got covers me for all of that.
[00:10:31] Kym: Would you mind sharing the name of the company, because this question comes up all
[00:10:35] Tiffany: I know.
[00:10:36] Kym: wanna know.
[00:10:36] Tiffany: it's called Foyt, which is spelled F-O-Y-H-T.
[00:10:41] Kym: Okay, I'm gonna have to remember this. 'cause literally you probably see it.
[00:10:45] Tiffany: I have, and I have, and I have answered multiple times.
[00:10:48] Kym: you have, I believe you.
[00:10:50] Tiffany: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:51] Kym: I feel like the same, like 10 questions come up every single day in there.
[00:10:54] Tiffany: Because it took me a
[00:10:55] Kym: there is a search bar. Yeah,
[00:10:57] Tiffany: while to find too. Yes. But it was from other people who have done it, so,
[00:11:01] Kym: can you take insurance?
[00:11:03] Tiffany: I cannot take insurance, although I am gonna look into another therapist here told me, but she believes that clients here in Spain might be able to use their insurance like out of network, like kind of how we would in the US and submit the invoice to their insurance company.
[00:11:19] She believes that to be true, but I have not confirmed, so I'm gonna, I just heard that recently, so I'm gonna look into that.
[00:11:25] Kym: So shifting gears just a little bit. You have a son, I always like to touch on this, like, how old was he when you moved?
[00:11:33] Tiffany: So he was 13 he turned 14 like a month later, so pretty much he was 14. He's 15 now and will be turning 16 this summer.
[00:11:42] Kym: Okay. That's amazing. 'cause you know, everybody says, well, I'm gonna wait till my, kid gets into college and then do it. You know? But I really like this like, reverse psychology in a way. It's like, hey, we're, we're taking him now so he can't leave, you know? So he's familiar and we'll stay around and maybe, maybe, who knows
[00:11:58] Tiffany: Right, exactly. He might change, but as of now, he is planning to stay. That's what he says anyway. And I, and I have not told him that I think he should. 'cause I don't wanna, because I'm afraid if I tell him that, then he'll wanna do the opposite.
[00:12:09] But like he himself his mind has been opened to so many possibilities of studying in in Europe. Like he may not end up sitting in Spain, but there's so many options. And many of them, by the way, are free.
[00:12:20] Kym: Wow, that's amazing. and since you guys are residents there, I mean, so all of you're under the golden visa and even though it's not an option anymore, it still applies to you.
[00:12:29] Tiffany: It basically, yes, it basically gave us permanent residency within like two weeks. We were able to be permanent residence and we will be eligible to apply for citizenship this year. And so then my son will have EU citizenship. Was that he's mostly the person I want to have it because once he has EU citizenship, he can apply to universities in Europe and, and if he gets in he'll, it'll be free.
[00:12:49] Kym: That's incredible. So it sounds like he adjusted easily, I guess. I mean, did, did he do
[00:12:54] Tiffany: I mean, yeah, I think overall. I think he's done beautifully. Of course there were challenges, you know, I mean, his Spanish, we put him in a Spanish school at first. 'Cause we really wanted to kind of immerse him in the language and in the culture and yeah, it was hard. I mean, the first six months, you know, he didn't understand a lot.
[00:13:13] And it was hard to do school in Spanish. You know, all his classes were in Spanish. But he, he is a kid. I'll say that. I, I knew this about him, but I think I really realized that moving here, he thrives with challenges. He's like, kind of one of those kids like, give me a challenge. Like, I wanna rise to the occasion.
[00:13:32] You know? So I think he, in a way, like he really thrived in this situation, even though it was hard. He kind of liked that it was hard. That makes sense?
[00:13:40] Kym: Yeah. That's cool. So once you get citizenship, I guess it would be citizenship in the eu, is that what you said? So Well then you have dual citizenship, or are you gonna give up
[00:13:51] Tiffany: we'll have dual citizenship.
[00:13:53] Kym: Okay. Okay, so then you'll still maintain your business in the United States and all of that.
[00:13:57] Tiffany: Exactly.
[00:13:58] Kym: Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Wow. It's dreamy, right? To think, oh, I'm gonna move to Madrid and live, and it's just so amazing. How is it, are there some pros, some cons? Are there things that you're like, gosh, I kind of missed that? Or is it like, no, it's amazing.
[00:14:13] Tiffany: I will be honest, like people have asked me this too, like friends and family, and it is kind of hard to come up with the cons.
[00:14:19] But I, I do now having lived here, I think living here almost two years now, I there, I have come up with one or two. But I'll say it's way more pros.
[00:14:27] And the pros include just so much less stressful. There's just a different energy. It's not as frenetic. People aren't in a rush. People really value socializing. I mean, my, my social life is way more active than I think it's ever been, probably since college. And I can't, I can't even keep up.
[00:14:45] Like I have to be like, they're like, why can't you go out? I'm like, I've already gone out three nights this week. I'm, I'm tired. You know? I mean, they just, you know, like, they're like, why are you working so hard? Like. Because I'm an American. I dunno. Yeah. So they're just, they really value and it's just an inter, they don't even see it as like a separate thing, like social.
[00:15:03] It is just a part of life here. And so people are, are less stressed, there's more walking. You know, I, I live in the neighborhood I live in. I, I haven't driven a car. I don't plan to get a car. I can literally walk to anything within five to 10 minutes, like you name it, a ba, a bank, restaurants, grocery stores cafes, bakeries a hair salon, a nail salon.
[00:15:25] I mean, it's all within walking distance. And if there's some other place that I want to go, I just take a bus or a metro. So I love that.
[00:15:33] Kym: And then, I mean, obviously all of Europe, you could just
[00:15:36] Tiffany: Right. Yeah, you're
[00:15:37] Kym: whatever you want.
[00:15:38] Tiffany: Yeah, exactly. You have access to travel in Europe. Yes. That's amazing. And then also just there's affordable healthcare. I mean, it's, it's really, and it's good. My experience is that it's good. Yeah, we, we paid in the US for all three of us, I think it was almost $3,000 a month.
[00:15:53] And that didn't even cover everything. And here the three of us are pol. We do have a, we do have access now that we've lived here. You know, I think we had to wait like maybe a year to get access to the public health. So we have that and that's totally free. But then in addition, you can get a private policy which will just enable you to be able to choose like who you wanna go to.
[00:16:13] Because with the public health, you're assigned a doctor, which she's great by the way. I've met her several times and I think she's amazing. She's also within my, in my neighborhood. I walk to her office. But the private policy that we pay for covers medical, dental, hospital surgeries, everything. There's no deductible. There's no copay, and it's two 50 a month all three of us.
[00:16:33] Kym: for the family. Oh my gosh. And this is the private insurance. Okay.
[00:16:36] Tiffany: private, the public's free.
[00:16:39] Kym: That's incredible. How does that work if, if you've got the private or is it just cover more? So like how does it work if you've got
[00:16:45] Tiffany: I think, I think what, what private it, it's kind of like PPO versus HMO in, in the us. So with the private, I have more access. I can kind of choose where I want to go, whereas in the public, you're assigned a doctor and then that if you wanna go to a specialist, your primary care doctor has to refer you.
[00:17:02] So it's a little bit more, I guess, restrictive. But, any medications I want, I get through my public primary care doctor because if she prescribes them and I get them through the public system, they cost like one or two euros my medications
[00:17:17] Kym: Wow. That's incredible.
[00:17:18] Tiffany: Versus if I get through the private doctor, the private system, it's more expensive. It's like 30 euros, which is still a lot cheaper. But it's, you know, one or two euros. So, yeah, it just blows my mind every time.
[00:17:30] Kym: And then part of the, golden visa was you had to buy property there. How's that going? what's that process been like? Was it like sight unseen or did you like go over it?
[00:17:41] Tiffany: Because I, I mean, I, I had been looking for like a year online and I honestly, I was getting a little discouraged because Madrid is, is one of the most expensive cities to live in Spain. So everything here is less expensive except for housing. Housing is pretty much on par here with the US prices.
[00:17:57] So, and it's, and you know, there, it's way smaller. I mean, we lived in a, in a big house, 3000 square foot house. And this is the apartment we ended up buying is 1200 square feet, which is a big apartment here. So most, most of them are a lot smaller. Most of them are like 800 or 900 square feet.
[00:18:15] So a lot smaller places and then really expensive. So I was definitely getting discouraged, but I found a place that I really liked right before we came here and I contacted the realtor and she said, oh, I'm sorry, I just went under a contract, but I am right now flipping another apartment in the same neighborhood. I just bought it and I'm doing like a total gut job and it's gonna look very similar to this one.
[00:18:40] But it's gonna be cheaper because it's smaller. And she said, if you're interested in it, I will give you like first opportunity. So I basically, when I, I, I came, I flew in and I saw where it was in the neighborhood. It was still like in, it was still like a gut job, but I just had faith that it was gonna look as good as the other one. And I basically bought it without it being finished. Cause I was afraid once she put it on the market, it would be gone.
[00:19:05] Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like as soon as things go on the market, it's gone here because it's just a high demand. yeah. So for while she was finishing it we stayed in Airbnbs.
[00:19:13] Kym: Oh, that's nice. Okay. but since you had like the intention and it was all set, you were able to use that visa and get over there.
[00:19:20] Tiffany: Yes, exactly. Well, as soon as we, we had to wait till we bought it, and then once it was in our name and we had to register it, you know, there was a few steps. I mean, and it was. It was challenging 'cause it's a completely different system and different language and I had to make sure I really did understand everything. But once all that was done, then we could officially apply for the Visa.
[00:19:40] Kym: And in the beginning you were talking about like y'all kind of sold everything, so did, you literally just get rid of everything and start fresh once you
[00:19:47] Tiffany: much we, we, we did bring, we did end up paying for an international mover to ship some things, like some boxes, but no furniture, mostly just like sentimental items or bicycles, like some art. And that was it because everything that I had read, which turned out to be true is that don't bring your big American furniture.
[00:20:06] It's not gonna
[00:20:06] Kym: I've heard that. Yeah. I think one of the other podcast episodes, she was like, I wish I hadn't done that. It was kind of a, a lot to bring all that stuff over.
[00:20:14] Tiffany: well, they just said it's just not, it's just not gonna fit. Like our couches are way bigger than the couches are here. Our beds, like everything, all of our furniture is just like way bigger. it's true. It wouldn't have fit. So I'm glad I listened to that. That was good advice.
[00:20:25] Kym: That's really good advice. Yeah. Okay. Wow. It's just so interesting. It just sounds like you're loving it over there.
[00:20:32] Tiffany: Yeah. So, okay, so cons. Okay, so I had, I
[00:20:34] Kym: Oh, okay. Yeah. Tell us some cards.
[00:20:36] Tiffany: I think for me so far, the two cons are that taxes are pretty brutal here, especially if you're self-employed. Because the Spanish system is not really set up for self-employment entrepreneurs. Most people here have government jobs or work for big companies.
[00:20:54] So I think they're working on changing that as more and more people are moving here and starting their own business now, and that Spaniards also wanna be starting their own businesses. So I think it's changing, but the, the right now it's, it's not great. The taxes are really high here for self-employed people.
[00:21:11] so that's one thing. And then just, just that they don't, they're not really a country. I, I see a big difference between the US and Spain in terms of like how much support and celebrating they do for like entrepreneurs. Like I feel like in the US there's a lot of, you know, about being an entrepreneur and all these incentives, and here it's kind of the opposite.
[00:21:29] You're almost like discouraged from doing that. and they don't talk about that either with kids, like, there's no talk about starting your own business like here. I mean, in like education system, it's much more about like, this is the path that you'll follow and then when you graduate, you will get a job in a Spanish company or in the government.
[00:21:48] so it's, it's a different, yeah. Different philosophy than the American one of like, be an individual, start your own business, you know?
[00:21:57] Kym: Yeah. Oh, that's super interesting. Yeah. Are we talking like more, more than 50% of your income? Or like
[00:22:03] Tiffany: Like it's like 40%. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:22:07] Kym: Ouch. Ouch.
[00:22:08] Tiffany: it's, it's, it's painful. Now, my tax accountant here says he thinks it's not gonna, I'm gonna get some money back because there is a, a tax treaty with the us, Spain, and the US Say that Spain says, we're not gonna double tax you.
[00:22:24] So I have to pay quarterly here to Spain right now and it's a lot. But once I submit my taxes for the year of the US and I pay my taxes to the US. 'cause by the way, as long as you're a US citizen, you have to pay taxes to the US until you die.
[00:22:37] Kym: Yeah.
[00:22:38] Tiffany: Once they, he gets that and files that here, he thinks that I'll get some money back. So the tax treaty says. Spain's not gonna double tax you, they're just gonna tax you the difference.
[00:22:47] So if they tax you, so let's say US taxes you 20% and Spain's 40%, supposedly, I, I only have to pay the difference. And he thinks he is gonna be able to get it down more to like maybe 30%. We'll see, I, I haven't actually, don't actually know the real number yet, but I have been paying quarterly 40% just to make sure I don't owe anything. Yeah.
[00:23:10] Kym: gosh. That's stressful.
[00:23:12] Tiffany: that part is definitely stressful.
[00:23:13] Kym: But you found a good accountant, it sounds like, that knows what he's doing and all that
[00:23:17] Tiffany: Yeah, yeah.
[00:23:18] Kym: So, lifestyle, like is there a habit that's like that you've developed now that you've lived there that's essential for a adapting to life in Spain?
[00:23:26] Tiffany: Yes, I think, for me, this was an adjustment and I think it's essential. You have to get used to eating meals later, especially dinner. So the typical dinner time here is 10:00 PM.
[00:23:39] Which means that if you wanna go out for dinner, you aren't gonna find any place that's open really before 8:00 PM and usually at 8:00 PM they're going to be serving like drinks and tapas, not like a meal. So you have to wait till nine or nine 30 if you wanna have like a dinner. And so that was an adjustment
[00:23:59] Kym: That's interesting. I, I remember when I was in Spain, it was like really obvious. It's like, it's six o'clock, it's time for dinner. It's like, no, it's not. We're just finishing up lunch or we're not even open yet. That kind of
[00:24:09] Tiffany: Exactly. Yeah. And people here, the traditional lunchtime here is 2:00 PM so that's when, so restaurants do open at two for lunch and that, and that is great because they most restaurants during the week. Something I love, I'm not sure if it's in all cities, but I love out Madrid is Monday through Friday, they have a menu of the day for lunch where they have this fixed menu and it's like usually a three or four course menu.
[00:24:30] And it's usually for like 10 to 15 euros. And all, everybody, all the business people, you know, come out. And eat lunch together and all the restaurants offer like a menu. So that's really
[00:24:41] Kym: nice. That is very cool. Yeah. And was there another one? It sounded like you had one more thing you wanted to say about adapting to life or, or is that,
[00:24:49] Tiffany: I think that's basically it. And just like staying up later, you know? Because, because if you're not eat, if you're going out and you're not eating dinner till 10, then you're gonna be staying up later.
[00:24:57] Like in the US I went to bed around 10, and you know, I got up around six, but here, you know, I, I really do go to bed much later. I still have to get up early 'cause I still have to make sure my son gets off to school. But, I do on the weekends sleep in more than I did ever did in the us and part of that is because here it's possible to sleep in because they have these things on all the windows that are like metal blinds.
[00:25:23] I dunno if you, you remember this when you were here, but you close them and it's like literally not an ounce of light gets in. It's like completely light blocking and everybody has those so people at night and they don't open them until, you know, 10 the next day am
[00:25:39] Kym: That's amazing. Yeah. When I was there, it seemed like, like in the morning it was like 9:00 AM but it still seemed kind of dark outside a little bit. I don't know what, maybe it's just the time of year I was there, but there definitely was a,
[00:25:51] Tiffany: getting going until like 9, 9 30, 10 here.
[00:25:55] Kym: Yeah. I kind of
[00:25:56] Tiffany: 'cause people are staying up late. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of nice if, if you're already a night owl, this would be like heaven, I think.
[00:26:01] Kym: So what, what hours do you see your clients? Like, what are your, your times that you see them?
[00:26:06] Tiffany: I start around 2:00 PM Spain time. So that's I think 8:00 AM to 1:00 PM US time, and then Spain time. It's two to seven. And sometimes I see two to eight. It's actually worked out because again, things are later
[00:26:22] Kym: like, yeah,
[00:26:23] Tiffany: Yeah. So it's actually worked out. I mean, I never did that in the US because in the US I tried to work from like between like 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM but you know, so I could also pick up my son from school. And so it's totally different, but it actually works. I mean, I, I really haven't, it works for the Spain lifestyle and it hasn't been problem for me actually.
[00:26:42] Kym: Well, it sounds like you've got it all figured out. It's pretty amazing.
[00:26:45] Tiffany: It is pretty great. I mean, there's still things, you know, to figure out. But yeah, I'm very happy and don't regret my decision at all.
[00:26:53] Kym: You're like, it's pretty good. I'm pretty happy. So anything else that you would wanna share? Like if somebody's listening to this and they're like, I wanna move to Madrid, is there any like things that you wish you had known ahead of time that maybe we didn't touch on?
[00:27:06] Tiffany: I would just say, you know, and I think this also has helped inform my work with expats and why I've started working with expats is I think I read this quote recently that it really resonated with me. And the quote says your new life will cost you your old one.
[00:27:22] I really have found that to be true. And to me, like living abroad and being an expat is, is the ability to hold complexity of like multiple things are true. So, while it's super exciting and expansive to be in a new place, I'm also grieving what I left behind. And while I'm also like super grateful for this opportunity and this like new life that I have, I'm also sad about things that I don't have anymore.
[00:27:50] Right. you know, my colleagues, my good friendships, my family, my office that I had for many years, my, you know, in-person office. And I think that's helped me to work with expats and, and understand that moving abroad is not just a lifestyle change, it really is an identity shift and figuring out, who you are in this new place.
[00:28:11] And so you're, you're both grieving what you look behind, but you're growing and becoming a different version of you and that's really powerful. I mean, I'm, and it's interesting to go through that myself and then also help other people to go through that.
[00:28:25] Kym: Yeah, I really love that. I mean, I can relate to it, you know, I mean, we're just in South Florida now, but it definitely moving all over the place takes away the ability to be present for like birthday parties and celebrations and you know, big milestones with the family and that sort of thing. And friends that you leave behind, like there is a a lot to that. There really is.
[00:28:45] Tiffany: Yeah. I mean, you, you, you have a different life, different life, you know, and, and part of that life comes with a different identity.
[00:28:51] Kym: Yep. Absolutely. Then you have the family members that are like, I don't get it. You know, like, how could you do that? Or the people like, how could you be moving around so much? You know, that kind of thing.
[00:29:01] Tiffany: yeah, and, and to share something very personal that I had to deal with when I, when I moved here, six months after moving here, my mom passed away unexpectedly.
[00:29:09] Kym: Oh gosh.
[00:29:10] Tiffany: And, and that was really hard, really painful, like to be grieving that while also still trying to build my life here. So that was another kind of experience that I had of, you know, and I had to come back and I had to deal with all of her things and, and you know, this, the experience of living kind of in two worlds. I experienced that in a very intense way.
[00:29:33] Kym: that's really hard. Oh my goodness. I'm glad you're talking about it. So a lot of people can realize there is a little bit of a trade off with some of that stuff. It's not all just like, rainbows, you know? And with a lot of this stuff. Mm-hmm.
[00:29:45] Tiffany: No, it's, it's like I said, it's the com. It's the complexity of both. I mean, 'cause I think for the most part people see from the outside like, oh, you're on this fun, exciting adventure. And it is that, but it is also comes with a lot of loss and grief and you know, pressure also to justify to people like, why you're doing this and explain.
[00:30:04] So there are, there is a psychological impact that it has and that's really why, like, going through it myself, I'm like, oh, I wanna help other people with this. And also I just read, I wanted, I wanted to share this too. I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal that for the first time last year, more Americans are now leaving the United States and coming in.
[00:30:24] Kym: Really
[00:30:25] Tiffany: Since the Yes. And so what that says to me is that there are more and more Americans that are living abroad right now and that are navigating these things like new systems, new cultural norms, raising families and other cultures language.
[00:30:43] Kym: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:44] Tiffany: I want to make sure that they have help with that and know they're, you know, not alone.
[00:30:50] Kym: Yeah.
[00:30:50] Tiffany: Yeah.
[00:30:51] Kym: And anybody listening, there's a huge niche for that. Then, you know.
[00:30:54] Tiffany: E. Exactly. Huge.
[00:30:56] Kym: You know?
[00:30:56] Tiffany: Very big need. Yeah.
[00:30:58] Kym: Yeah. Therapists are always struggling with that. Like, what's my niche? Who should I, who should I serve? You know, how do I market myself? I mean, that's a big, wide open field for
[00:31:06] Tiffany: It is. It is.
[00:31:08] Kym: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today. Yeah.
[00:31:12] Tiffany: me. I really, I really loved being on, and again, like I said, it's, it's, it's amazing to actually get to be a guest after listening, you know, for a year before I moved here.
[00:31:22] Kym: It's so cool to me too. 'cause it's like, you know, I, I, you know, one day I was like, I'm just gonna do a podcast, just interview people. But then I start to hear stories like this and it's just, it's neat for me too to hear that. So I appreciate you
[00:31:32] Tiffany: Oh yeah, definitely.
[00:31:33] Kym: that it helped you. if people wanna reach out to you, is there any place that they could find you if somebody wants to talk to you about this
[00:31:40] Tiffany: Absolutely they can reach out to me through my website. It's www.tiffany castanos.com and I'm also happy if they wanna email me, which is tiff, T-I-F-F-M-A-R-G, TIFF marg@gmail.com. And then on my website is my phone number too, so they can also text me. So I, I kept an American phone with an American phone number so they can also text me if they want.
[00:32:04] Kym: that's a good idea.
[00:32:05] Tiffany: Yeah.
[00:32:06] Kym: do you just like have at and t or something you just
[00:32:08] Tiffany: No, no. I actually this is another thing that I learned from other traveling therapists is I have a Google Voice number, so I kept my American phone and then I just, I, my, I cut my line and then I got a Google Voice phone number that I use with that phone. Yeah.
[00:32:26] Kym: I've heard that a lot though. That's a really good solution, so I'm glad you brought that up. For sure. We'll put all the information below for you guys listening and you can reach out to Tiffany.
[00:32:34] Tiffany: Thank you so much, Kim,
[00:32:36] Kym: thank you so much.