This is one of those topics that comes up constantly in The Traveling Therapist Facebook group, especially for clinicians who feel pulled beyond the borders of the US. In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Sienna Forest to talk about what getting licensed in Canada as a therapist actually looks like in real life.
Sienna is a US-based therapist who’s been living a nomadic lifestyle between the US and British Columbia, and she’s currently navigating licensure, visas, and permanent residence in Canada. She shares what she’s learned so far, what’s been harder than expected, and what she really wishes she had known before starting this process.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Mentioned in this episode:
The NOC code for therapists is 41301:
https://noc.esdc.gc.ca/OaSIS/OaSISOccProfile?GocTemplateCulture=en-CA&code=41301.00&version=2023.0
The English language test you are required to take for permanent residency:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/language-test.html
Educational credential assessment you need to obtain to prove degree equivalency:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessment.html
Comprehensive ranking system breakdown:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/check-score/crs-criteria.html
Links for the visa/licensing websites:
https://www.canadavisa.com/nafta-professionals.html
https://bcacc.ca/join/rcc/apply-now-rcc/
Walk and Talk Consent form:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZCWjFiKVMHm0Az6g8AC10wvQIoLyilc3/view?usp=sharing
Connect with Sienna:
Email: sienna@siennaforesttherapy.com
Website: https://siennaforesttherapy.com/ | https://coaching.siennaforesttherapy.com/
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple iTunes | Spotify | Google Podcast | Stitcher | Amazon | Castbox
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. We have a very cool guest today. I'm excited for this episode because this is a question that comes up like I swear once a week in the Traveling Therapist Facebook group. We have Sienna Forest here with us today. Love the name by the way. Sienna's a therapist, but she's got a really cool story that she's living, working on right now that she wants to share all the details with you. Also. Sienna, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:27] Glad to have you here. So I always start out with like, how did you go from being a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist? Maybe give us a little background about what got you to where you are now, and then we could dive into the topic.
[00:00:38] Sienna: Yes. Well yeah, Kim, thanks again for having me. This, I've loved your podcast and it's really helped me to feel more connected to Yeah. Other therapists who are living a little bit less traditionally and moving around a lot. I've moved around I think eight times over this last year, so it's always nice to know that people are also doing the same thing.
[00:00:54] Kym: Oh, thanks for saying
[00:00:55] Sienna: Yeah. I've always kind of thought of therapy. I, I don't like following traditional boundaries of things. Like when I was, I started doing therapy and like really getting into it during COVID, I was in grad school when COVID hit, and so I started to see people doing walks and doing walking sessions because I was working at like a residential substance clinic, and because of that.
[00:01:16] We didn't have enough rooms available. And so I started kind of exploring different avenues for therapy and started doing a lot of hiking sessions with people. And you know, on top of that, after graduation I went to South America for three months. I've always loved going and traveling for like, multiple months at a time.
[00:01:32] And I was thinking about how I don't wanna have a job where I feel stuck. Like I really don't like feeling like I'm stuck in one place. And, over the years I was living in Santa Cruz in California and felt really settled there and then ended up taking a trip up to a place called Squamish in Canada, and that's on the coast of British Columbia.
[00:01:51] It's about like an hour north of Vancouver. And I just like fell in love with this town. I mean, I'm here right now. It the, it's a, it's a beautiful sunny day, which in the Pacific Northwest is so rare and there's just, you know, you see just. All the mountains in the background. Everybody here is really into outdoor activities and I just started coming back and as a US citizen, I can be here for under six months without a visa.
[00:02:15] And so I just started kind of going between Santa Cruz and Squamish and then ended up in Seattle for a few months and just kept finding myself coming back here. And that's kind of how I started doing more of like the traveling therapy thing. Transitioning from doing hiking sessions with people to just doing virtual sessions, which has been hard to, to give that up, but it's also just allowed me the freedom to be able to kind of do what I want, which is really nice.
[00:02:39] Kym: Yes. And you can still hike and see your clients, right? You can do it on video, like,
[00:02:43] Sienna: Exactly. Or phone. I do a lot of phone sessions.
[00:02:45] Kym: Yeah, Oh, nice. yeah, I love that. I love that. I feel like we could have a whole other episode just like on walk and talk therapy. Because that comes up in the group a lot too, and people will say, you can't do that. What about confidentiality on the trails and all? And I'm like, come on guys. You know? I mean, that's how I feel about it, you know? But.
[00:03:02] Sienna: I actually did my senior capstone project in grad school on Walk and talk therapy, and I have, if, if you ever want me to share, I have a specific consent form that I created for Walk and Talk. I'd be happy to share it with the group if you'd be interested. 'Cause yeah, it's amazing and it's like the clients that I found, especially like teenagers and young adults, love doing walk and talk therapy and it just makes it so much, I find that there's so much less of a hierarchy when you're doing a walking session with a client. It's just really amazing.
[00:03:27] Kym: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I would love that. Yeah, if you want to right after this, you could post it in the group. I think people would just love to have a copy of that. That'd be amazing. So let's talk about the Canada, piece back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
[00:03:38] There's so many questions that come up. So where are you right now in the process? Maybe just kind of give us a snapshot of like where you are. Because you're, you're literally trying to like get licensed in Canada, we should say.
[00:03:52] Sienna: For a long time I was thinking, oh, I could just do six months in the states, six months in Canada. It's kind of exhausting and I'm, I've just, I'm just falling more and more in love with here. So what I started doing was researching what sort of visa or process for permanent residence, which I'll, whenever I say pr it's permanent residence.
[00:04:08] And so there's different avenues to, to stay in Canada, but unfortunately as a US citizen, our visa processes are a little bit different. It's a little bit harder because we're allowed to be here under six months without a visa. So you could be here for 183 days. And for me, I was kind of realizing, okay, I actually do wanna live here full time.
[00:04:25] And so in British Columbia, each province has their different licensing boards. British Columbia has what's called the B-C-A-C-C, which is the British Columbia Association of Clinical Counselors. so what I did was I kind of went on through their website and I, I've linked that for you as well, so people can check that out.
[00:04:42] You essentially just have to prove licensure equivalency. And for me, I got licensed fully as a therapist in California last February and then started my own private practice in May. So because I'm fully licensed and because the requirements in British Columbia right now are a lot less for therapists than they are in, especially in California and New York.
[00:05:01] Just as an example, in Canada right now, and this is actually the law's about to change, I think in 2027, they're gonna be under a new regulatory board. So a lot of these requirements are going to be changing and it's probably gonna get harder. But for now, if you are trying to get licensed in Canada, you only have to do 150 direct clinical hours instead of, in California it's 3000, you know, hours of direct and indirect.
[00:05:25] So it's a huge difference and there are no licensure tests in British Columbia, which is crazy right now. So that's probably gonna be changing. But it's a great time. If you are a therapist in the States right now in British Columbia, it is easier to get that transition than you'd think it might be.
[00:05:42] Kym: Wow.
[00:05:43] Sienna: Yeah.
[00:05:44] Kym: Where would you recommend if somebody's like, okay, I want, I wanna move to British Columbia, and is it different in every like.
[00:05:49] Sienna: Yes. Every province is different. Yeah.
[00:05:52] Kym: So are they all easy? Do you know, or have you not even looked at that part?
[00:05:56] Sienna: I think British Columbia is still pretty easy. Quebec is not anymore. I think a lot of the provinces are harder. British Columbia is a little bit, I think behind, and that's why they're gonna be changing the regulations in 2027 to kind of better fit, I think, the standards of some of the upper provinces, but definitely fact check that 'cause I'm not a hundred percent sure.
[00:06:11] Kym: Gotcha. So what is, the timeline look like if we were to like explain it to somebody, like from start to finish for you?
[00:06:18] Sienna: I started looking into this in October of last year, so 2025. I went on the, the website for the B-C-A-C-C and I sent in, I had to send in all of a bunch of syllabi from grad school. Like I actually had to find the syllabi to prove equivalency. You have to get a bunch of clinical reference forms and, reference forms from colleagues.
[00:06:39] So the process, after I submitted all of the documents, it took about three months to hear, or they, they reached out to me like a month or so later just to ask for some other documentation. They were missing some things, but they were pretty responsive. And then by December, they had let me know my application had pros had, had finished the first round. But here's the caveat that the fun part in order to get your RCC, is their registered clinical counselor designation.
[00:07:05] In order to get that approved fully, you have to be living in Canada, which means you need to have a visa or you need to have pr. And so that's where I'm at right now is my application has passed the first round, but before they finalize it, I need to get fingerprinted and I need to get, a visa, so I can stay here. But to get a visa, a lot of times you have to get hired by a company who doesn't. So it's this kind of catch 22. So that's where it gets sticky.
[00:07:31] Kym: Okay. So what do you do? I mean, what do you do about that?
[00:07:34] Sienna: that's what I'm working on. Um, So that's why originally I was trying to go for what's called the CUSMA visa. That's the Canada, US Mexico agreement. the CUSMA visa essentially is for skilled workers to be working in Canada.
[00:07:46] Therapy is not specifically listed there. They have social work and psychologist on there, so it was a little bit iffy. I could, if I could even get that visa. But um, because I had some issues with that, I'm now just going for permanent residence, which is a much bigger process. costs some money.
[00:08:00] It's, I'm paying thousands of dollars to get this, get a lawyer and kind of figure it out. But because I have my own business in the states and I don't wanna give that up, it makes it a, it's a little bit a better route for me to get PR in Canada. And then once I get that PR, then I could get my RCC pretty quickly.
[00:08:18] Kym: okay, so if you are seeking residency in Canada, will that mess up your resident, your citizenship in the us or like how it would be dual citizenship essentially, I'm so bad with this stuff. I'm like, wait, how does all this
[00:08:31] Sienna: like what's happening? Um, so, and I don't know, I, I, I wanna definitely fact check this because I'm not a hundred percent sure, but permanent residence is different than citizenship. So I'm not becoming a citizen of Canada. I'm just getting permanent residence.
[00:08:43] So I'll still have my citizenship in the states. I'm still planning, I have, I'm licensed right now in California and Washington. My business is registered in Washington because I'm a mess and I don't know what I'm doing. yeah. So I'm gonna be keeping those threads and that's part of why I hired a lawyer because I wanna make sure once I move to Canada, I'm gonna have to pay tax both in Canada and the us, though Canada and the US has some tax agreements, so that I will be essentially paying the difference in the tax instead of paying um, like double. Yeah, exactly.
[00:09:12] Kym: Okay. yeah. I can't remember what that's called, but there is some law basically that you can't be taxed twice. Like twice when you're living in a foreign entity or whatever. Yeah, okay. So where did you get the, is the lawyer Canadian or,
[00:09:24] Sienna: Yes.
[00:09:25] Kym: nice.
[00:09:26] Sienna: so the lawyer, my, actually my lawyer, so he's in, in this area, so he's, he's near Whistler. He's originally from Italy though, and he immigrated here and he's, he's a sweetie. I really, really like him. And, um, I did a consultation with him last week and so we've been starting to work on the process of pr, but that is, yeah. Again, one thing that I think people should know is if they are trying to get that RCC, the registered clinical counselor in Canada, there is this catch 22. If you need to get hired by an employer or to get PR in order to have that license. You can't just get the license if you're living in the states and you don't intend on living in Canada. I feel like that's an important piece that I didn't really know when I applied.
[00:10:02] Kym: it's very important. so did you, try to pursue that route? Like, try to find somebody to hire you and, and so how did that go? I mean, it must not have gone well, I'm guessing.
[00:10:12] Sienna: I got a string of rejection. No. Um, So I, part of my issue is that I have my own private practice and I've been filling up, and so I'm, and I'm not willing to give that up. And so I was looking for a part-time employer in Canada, as I think a lot of us companies do this as well. Most places hire contractors.
[00:10:29] They don't hire employers or employees, and so. Because of that, the only entities that really hire employees in Canada would be nonprofits and government organizations. But so far no government organization, like most government organizations aren't gonna hire part-time. And then a lot of the nonprofits just partner with therapy consulting businesses.
[00:10:50] So they're not really looking either. So that was, that was why I decided to go the PR route was just because. I think I probably got like 15 rejections in like three weeks after applying to so many places. And it wasn't, you know, they were just like, yeah, we're just hiring contractors. Let us know if you want that. And I was like, yeah, I can't do that.
[00:11:08] Kym: And you can't be a contractor, right? 'cause you have to be like, I guess a citizen of Canada or whatever to be like, or like what would qualify somebody as a contractor? Like I guess somebody like me couldn't do it, is what I'm hearing.
[00:11:20] Sienna: No. Um, So you'd have to be, that would essentially be like, once I get PR and I'm living in Canada, then I could get hired on as a contractor potentially. I think, and I might be wrong about that, but yeah, we, you know, that wouldn't help you with any of the visa, so you couldn't, you couldn't get a contractor role and work because in order to work in Canada you need some sort of visa.
[00:11:38] Kym: Gotcha. So why like, why go through all of it. Was it just because it's so tir, like exhausting, like going back and forth and you just wanted to have a client caseload in Canada just in case? Or like what? I just like, I'm just wondering about the thinking around it because my advice is always like, just stay licensed in your state and just make it work. 'Cause it just seems so hard to do stuff like this. But I just, I'm curious like what took you there. Like why? Why do you wanna pursue it so much?
[00:12:04] Sienna: Yeah. I guess two reasons. One, I am in love with Squamish. right now I'm single and I am in love with a, with a place . so it just makes it, it feels so worth it to find a way to be here. I just keep getting drawn back here and the community out here, the activities I can do, like my quality of life up here.
[00:12:20] Really lends itself to also being about a therapist because I'm taking such good care of my own kind of soul nourishment. But part of why I'm going through getting, trying to get licensed in Canada is because in order to get permanent residents, you do need to be working in Canada. I mean, I, I fact check me on this 'cause I might be wrong 'cause everything is confusing, but the route that I'm going is the express entry skilled worker route, which means.
[00:12:45] So I wouldn't get hired by a company in Canada, but I have my own business. But to get more kind of in order to get these points and to kind of work towards I think citizenship, then I need to have a job in Canada. And I want, and I also wanna be working in my community. Like I really do miss my hiking therapy and wanna like, having that in.
[00:13:04] I mean, I love working online. It gives me so much freedom, but I do really miss having some of that, like the connection in person. So I think that's part of why I'm kind of going through this is because I do eventually really wanna work and be able to see clients in Squamish.
[00:13:16] Kym: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah,
[00:13:17] Sienna: it's exhausting. Yeah. And I think for people who are maybe more interested in like, oh, I kind of wanna come to Canada for a couple months and then I'm happy going back and forth, as long as you're here under 183 days, as long as you are seeing clients who are in the states that you're licensed, it doesn't matter where you are.
[00:13:32] You can be anywhere. And so I've worked from, I've worked, I've lived in Canada under six months for the last three years essentially. And I've just had my, my virtual private practice when I'm here. And I haven't run into any issues with that, hopefully.
[00:13:44] Kym: Yeah, and that's what I was gonna ask you. I guess it's fine to work from British Columbia back into the us like just to see your clients back in the us There's no restrictions or anything. Okay.
[00:13:54] Sienna: as long as it's under 183 days, under that six month mark, once you hit over the six month mark is where you start to be tax liable and you're considered living. And so as long as I'm not seeing any clients who are Canadian, everybody is focused on the states that I'm licensed in yeah, it doesn't matter.
[00:14:09] Kym: Gotcha. And it's 183 days, like in a year, right out of a year? So you couldn't like just leave for three days and then come back and reset the 183 days, right?
[00:14:18] Sienna: I don't think so. What I've, and I've heard, 'cause I know that some people talk about rolling dates versus starting at the beginning of the year. And what I've heard from kind of some of the lawyers that I've talked to is that at the beginning of the year it resets. And so, you know, I've been here, I think last year I was here for five.
[00:14:34] And then now it's reset. And so I'm starting my six months over. I'll probably have to leave again just because I'm trying to get PR and that takes a lot of time. And I wanna be here for summer 'cause that's the best time to be here, but yeah.
[00:14:46] Kym: I bet that's so nice. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Before we got on, I looked up like British Columbia, like the area on the map. I was like, oh. That looks so pretty up there. Oh my
[00:14:55] Sienna: I almost even wanna like, I wish you could see it out the, out the window, but like, it's so beautiful.
[00:15:00] Kym: Wow. That's
[00:15:02] Sienna: I'll send you some, I'll send you some pictures from some hikes that I've done that are so
[00:15:05] Kym: yes, please do. I wanna see that for sure. So, you might have already said this, but how long does PR take? Is it just different for everybody or like, what's the timeframe?
[00:15:14] Sienna: So complex question. PR is based on a point system, so you get points based off of, and now it's, it's gotten a lot harder to get into Canada. Even five years ago it was a lot easier. I'm coming in at a bad time because the US is a great place to live right now and everybody wants to be there. So over the last couple of years it's gotten a lot harder and so the points have gone up.
[00:15:34] But essentially you get points for the younger you are, unfortunately how skilled your work is, what sort of degree you have, the higher education you have, the better. And they have something called the noc code, the NOC, and that is essentially the code that you get for the profession that you have.
[00:15:49] And so, therapist noc code. I can't remember exactly what it is. I can look it up and I can let you know, but there's a certain code that we get and we had a certain amount of points based off of that code. And so you gather up all these points. You also have to take an English license or an English language test.
[00:16:05] So I have to, and the higher point, you need to score as high as possible. And it doesn't matter if you're an English speaker or not, everybody has to take it. And so I have to take this English language test to also give me more points.
[00:16:15] And based on your profession, based on the noc code that kind of has, it gives you the blueprint for how many points you need to have in order to even have a chance of getting asked for PR or get, yeah, getting the request for pr. And let me know if any of this doesn't make sense because it's hard to wrap your brain around.
[00:16:34] Kym: I'm just, I'm wondering about the noc code. is it like good for therapists or not? Good?
[00:16:39] Sienna: Is. So we are, so the good thing with therapy is that we require less points. So some, some people require like 500 plus points, at least according to my lawyer. What he talked about was for therapy and it changes every year, it fluctuates. But right now for a therapist, you need at least I think between like 460 and 480 points.
[00:16:58] And because we're in, we're considered to be in healthcare, it's a likelihood that we will get asked or we'll get nominated for PR earlier than a lot of other professions. some people talk about it takes years to get pr and at least based on what my lawyer said, which who knows like, just depending on, on the economy,
[00:17:14] because you don't really know, you know, the government could ask for some healthcare workers tomorrow, or it could be in six months. You have no say but it seems like they invite healthcare workers a little bit more. So as a therapist there is a little bit of a leg up, which is really
[00:17:28] Kym: That's cool. Yeah, I was wondering, That's so interesting. So
[00:17:32] Sienna: Do you need me to explain any more of
[00:17:33] Kym: No, I'm just wondering like, I mean this, you may not even know, but like how many points, like how many points are things? I'm just curious. Like do if you have, if you score well on the English test, is it like 10 points or is it like a hundred points, you know?
[00:17:45] and I wonder like you said, social workers and psychologists, so if somebody's an LPC, like is that a lower or a higher, you know, if, if they don't like, include that, you know what I mean? Or
[00:17:55] Sienna: I mean, I think, I think so what you do is you don't necessarily just look at the title because in Canada it's also their, the Canadian version of therapy is a little bit different than the states because in the states, you know, and, and at least in California, I'll speak to, we are trained in, in diagnosing from the DSM because we need that for insurance purposes.
[00:18:12] And Canada, I believe as a an RCC, you can't diagnose. We kind of fall somewhere between almost like a psychologist and a counselor. In the States we're in this kind of weird gray area. And so that's why I'm going for the lower tier, because for psychologists you need a PhD.
[00:18:26] So what, essentially what you'd be doing is rather than looking at the job title, you're looking more at the job description. And this is also why it's important to hire a lawyer because you need to make sure you get the noc code right. Because if you don't screws everything up, and so you'd go through the like job description and figure out, is this the job that I'm doing? More so than the, like the title. So LPCC would do the same thing. Yeah.
[00:18:47] Kym: So how are you making it work? Right now, like, going back and forth and are, do you have like a home back in the States and then you like airbnb it. People always wanna know like about the money, like how am I affording this and that and how am I making it work? You know? I don't know if you wanna talk about it, but it'd be
[00:19:03] Sienna: Absolutely. So I am insane and I've moved, yeah, eight times in the last year. I've been living, I have everything fits in a car at this point. I'm very lucky that my parents, yeah, God, my parents have a, a store, like a little, an attic that we can throw some things in. So I have all my big ticket items in there in California.
[00:19:20] And then, I have been, so, like currently right now I'm staying with some friends who recently bought a home in Squamish. And so they're giving me like a, a good deal, but I've often rented, I've sublet from people for a few months at a time in Squamish. And so, because the exchange rate right now is, you know, unfortunately for Canada, but fortunately for the US the exchange rates really in our favor.
[00:19:38] And so even though Squamish, British Columbia is one of the most expensive places to live in, in Canada, Squamish is very expensive. But again, I'm coming from California and from Santa Cruz was I think great at the number one most expensive place to rent in the United States for three years in a row. So everything feels cheap to me.
[00:19:54] Kym: Yeah. You're like, this is amazing.
[00:19:56] Sienna: yeah. But what I've often done is I've been subletting I'll either use, I think it's called Furnished Finder. They do, it's for like nurses and healthcare professionals. I've occasionally tried to find things on there, but for me at this point, more of it's like word of mouth, where I'll go on to, like in Squamish for instance, there's often Facebook pages for housing.
[00:20:14] Same thing in Seattle, same thing in Santa Cruz. And so I'll go onto the Facebook page and I'll see if, 'cause a lot of times people are going and traveling for a few months, and so I'll try to sublet from people doing that. And I just find that I like that a lot more. I don't like Airbnb, I don't like all the additional fees and it's.
[00:20:27] Generally pretty pricey, especially if you're in like the States or Canada. But yeah, Facebook housing pages are like a lifesaver. That's how I do it.
[00:20:35] Kym: That is a good tip for sure. Yeah. And then everything's in your car pretty much, I guess you just drive up there.
[00:20:40] Sienna: I do. And then unfortunately, I've accumulated a lot of plants because I need plants in my space, and so sometimes I leave plants with friends and then come and pick them up
[00:20:50] Kym: love that. Oh my gosh, I wish I had done that. I had like, three plants I think that I'd had for like 20 years. Like literally it moved with me. You know, like, you know, you just love your plants, right? And,
[00:21:02] Sienna: you do.
[00:21:03] Kym: I gave 'em away, you know, and I often, I'm like,
[00:21:05] Sienna: You need them?
[00:21:06] Kym: those plants.
[00:21:07] Sienna: Yeah, I have. I literally have a giant monstera I
[00:21:10] Kym: Oh.
[00:21:10] Sienna: I had to leave it at a friend's house because I'm like, I can't bring this in a car. This makes no sense.
[00:21:16] Kym: Funny. Oh my gosh. If only you could like a little camper top and you just put your plants a little greenhouse, camper top. We need to invent that.
[00:21:23] Sienna: Oh, that'd be hilarious.
[00:21:24] Kym: Oh my gosh.
[00:21:26] Sienna: But I find that like moving so much, it's so important to have, like I have plants, I have like some, I always collect rocks when I do big hikes and scrambles and stuff. And so it's like having those little things that make you feel, you know, I bring a lamp with like a special lamp that I always put up on my desk.
[00:21:40] And like having those little bits and pieces that make you feel grounded because it is hard moving around so much, like figuring out what's your therapy space gonna feel like. Having like the wifi enhancer just in case the wifi is bad and there's all these little things that just make a difference. Yeah,
[00:21:56] Kym: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I love those tips. Yeah, I mean, I, I've gotten out of like, just like little thi like mementos or whatever, but there's definitely, like right now my car is just packed full. I just keep buying beach stuff 'cause we're on the beach, we're down at the beaches in Florida. I'm like, I need an umbrella. And now I want one of tent, things that blows it. You know? It's like in my car, a paddleboard, inflatable paddleboard. So it's like my whole car is just full of that stuff
[00:22:17] Sienna: I have more and more gear I've been accumulating, especially skiing and doing outdoor adventures. It's just like, oh my god. Uh,
[00:22:23] Kym: So funny. Well, you need all the stuff right. To,
[00:22:25] Sienna: you know? You do.
[00:22:26] Kym: Yeah. Totally. So what advice would you give somebody listening that's like, I, I wanna move to Canada, or I wanna go to British Columbia. Like, what would you say? Like, if you had to do it all over again, are there like mistakes you made that you wish you had just done it this way instead that could give, you know, some good guidance for somebody listening?
[00:22:42] Sienna: I think that a really big piece use, especially if you're from the states, use that under six months to your advantage and really figure out like, where would I want to go? Because yeah, again, like we were talking about, this is a huge process and it's a lot of time, effort, money.
[00:22:57] And you know, I think really, really knowing for me, it took me a couple years to really just acknowledge the fact that I want to live here. And so I think taking that time and using, we are, we're very lucky that we don't have to have a visa for under six months. Like it's very nice that we can go and do that. So like really taking advantage of that. Also one thing I, I, I didn't mention, you know, of course in that RCC application, kind of knowing a little bit more of the ins and outs of, it's not as simple as I thought it was, you know, having to get the job to get the licensure.
[00:23:24] Also another piece I wanted to mention about that is, in order to, so within the 150 direct client hours, they required you would have 25 hours of direct supervision. And their version of that is different than in the us And that's caused me a little bit of pain at first because,
[00:23:41] direct means either direct observation review of video, like videotaped sessions, review of audio tape sessions, co-counseling, and co-facilitating. It's not like our traditional group supervision where you have one-on-one with your supervisor.
[00:23:55] I had to go do a bunch of research and digging back in grads school to figure out like, okay, where did I, I know I did 25 hours of that, like their version of direct counseling, but how do I prove it? Because I did not do any of that after graduation.
[00:24:07] Kym: Yeah. Oh
[00:24:08] Sienna: and so that was a piece, no. And so that's one piece where they often have issues with people who wanna get their RCC, they have to then get more direct supervision in Canada because they don't meet those requirements.
[00:24:20] And that's something I wish I had known because I didn't realize that and I just thought it was gonna be a very easy process. Um, Yeah. So that's maybe one thing that I'd, I'd wanna,
[00:24:28] Kym: That's good to know. So, so do you found it, I mean, you found the, the wow and are we talking like, the process recordings where you had to like, I think that's what they called 'em and you had to like. And they were like grading you and then reviewing and you had to like write it all up. Oh my gosh.
[00:24:42] Sienna: favorite, our favorite sessions of grad school where we felt great. Oh, yeah. When we ripped ourselves apart.
[00:24:47] Kym: Yeah. It was so fun.
[00:24:49] Sienna: Yeah. So it's either that or like a therapist or their supervisor sitting in with you in sessions or, yeah. So their version of direct supervision is not what ours is. And that was when I found that out, I was like, oh my God, I don't wanna, I've done 3000 hours, I don't wanna deal with this.
[00:25:03] This is bullshit. You know? So, but I would say most grad programs do at least do some of those hours. But that is one issue that I almost was gonna have to deal with and get additional supervision for.
[00:25:15] Kym: Wow, so interesting. I mean, I guess you would've literally had to do that 150 hours of direct supervision in Canada with, with somebody, right?
[00:25:23] Sienna: I would've had to do, so, it would be, it's only 25 hours, so I would've had to do any of the difference. So say I had, I had completed 15 hours in my grad program, I would've had to find somebody, I think either in Canada or the us. I'm not a hundred percent sure on that, but I would've had to make up those 10 hours and get direct supervision where a supervisor is like, yeah, like doing the thing that we do in grad school.
[00:25:43] Kym: That's amazing. I don't even think I did that in grad school. I think I did in my undergrad.
[00:25:48] Sienna: Right. And then they also, 'cause they do also suggest review of audio tape sessions. So like, if you, I know in, in some supervisions, like you'll bring in a recording of a session and then talk about it. That also counts.
[00:25:58] Kym: That's good.
[00:25:59] Sienna: yeah. So that, that, that's at least helpful.
[00:26:01] Kym: Makes it a little easier. Yeah, that would be really, I just feel like at this point it'd be so weird to have somebody sitting in my session.
[00:26:06] Sienna: I was like, I, I,
[00:26:08] Kym: I don't wanna do that. Yeah,
[00:26:09] Sienna: No.
[00:26:10] Kym: No break. Whatever the deal is broken. I'm not doing this. Yeah. That would've been deal breaker. That's the word I'm looking for. Deal breaker.
[00:26:17] Sienna: Exactly. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm done. I'm done tearing myself apart like that.
[00:26:21] Kym: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So
[00:26:23] Sienna: Yeah.
[00:26:23] Kym: Oh my gosh. Okay, so, it sounds like you got well into the process before you got the lawyer. Do you think, would you recommend or am I incorrect about that?
[00:26:33] Sienna: No. Yeah, no, I think you are correct. I, I, unfortunately, was the person who used ChatGPT for some of this, and then ChatGPT told me the wrong things and I learned, Hmm, maybe I should actually hire a lawyer instead talking to ChatGPT. Oops.
[00:26:45] Kym: Oh, I always do that. I always go with ChatGPT first.
[00:26:47] Sienna: it gives you an idea and then, you know, yeah.
[00:26:50] Kym: do you think it would've been much easier probably if you just started from there or with a lawyer or
[00:26:55] Sienna: I only recently kind of decided, because originally I was going for the COSMA visa and with that I was like, I'm gonna try to figure it out myself 'cause I don't like giving people money. But because now it's more complicated with me wanting to keep my own business and also just kind of realizing I don't want just a visa.
[00:27:10] I wanna actually move here. That's when I realized, and there's also, so they have consul, immigration consultants and immigration lawyers. I personally chose to go with a lawyer who's a little bit more expensive, but I'm doing that because I have my own private practice in the states and I don't wanna give it up.
[00:27:23] And that just creates a little bit more complexity. But if you have a very straightforward case, if you are, you know, going for express entry, you have a job offer from a Canadian company. You could go with an immigration consultant and it would be a little bit cheaper. But a lot of these people, they offer like an hour long consultation where they kind of give you a roadmap to a Visa or pr and then you can decide if you wanna work with them or decide if you wanna just do it yourself.
[00:27:48] But again, at this point, because especially for pr, it's gotten a lot harder. The system is such that if there is a slight error in your application, say you send in a form in black and white that's supposed to be in color, they can deny your application and you would have to start all over, which means that the points that you had in, you know, four pr, that noc code, the point system might not now qualify for the next round because maybe the points are higher.
[00:28:14] Kym: Changed. Oh,
[00:28:15] Sienna: And so you need to make sure when you submit your application, you need to make sure it is perfect. And for me, I'm running a, a private practice. I'm dealing with a lot of shit. I don't got time to spend hours and hours agonizing over like, am I doing all the paperwork perfectly? So I think it is worth it.
[00:28:31] I mean, it's expensive, but I think, and this has been what I've been thinking about over the last week is like, you know, it's gonna cost me like $5,000 to get a lawyer, could I make those $5,000 back focusing on my business while the lawyer is doing all the paperwork that would stress me out,
[00:28:46] Kym: Instead of like trying to figure it out all the time and effort and energy. Yep.
[00:28:50] Sienna: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like you've talked about that on previous podcasts almost, of like, like kind of really focusing your time. Exactly. And you, yeah. You talk a lot about that and like, I would rather be spending my time seeing my clients and not spending hours and hours like pulling my hair out, trying to figure out paperwork.
[00:29:05] Kym: totally. A lesson I've had to learn. You know, it's like, how much is my hour worth really, you know, versus like paying a VA or, or somebody else to just knock it out, you
[00:29:14] Sienna: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:29:15] Kym: me a long time to learn that.
[00:29:16] Sienna: It's taking me a long time. I still, I mean, that's the last year. I should have started this process a year ago, and I was just like, no, I'll figure it out.
[00:29:22] Kym: Oh, Well, so helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this and if people wanna reach out to you, is, is there a good place for them to find you? Another therapist maybe is trying to figure it out.
[00:29:35] Sienna: Absolutely. I one day want create an Instagram for therapy, but I don't like social media very much, and I'm avoiding it at all costs. So I have an email, sienna@cienaforesttherapy.com. I think I gave to you. And then I have my own website, so, sienna forest therapy.com.
[00:29:50] And if you're interested in talking more about this as well, I do have a coaching website that I'm kind of exploring and trying to maybe figure out if I'm wanting to dabble in that realm, especially for maybe talking to people about moving to Canada. I'm always happy to kind of consult with people and share some of the things that I wish I had known. But yeah, those are probably the best ways to reach me.
[00:30:07] Kym: That's cool. Do you know the, do you have a URL for the coaching website already or
[00:30:11] Sienna: Yes, I do. Yeah. And that's, it's more focused right now on breath. So I do breath work, I'm breath work trained, and so I'm kind of, it's a little bit more focused on that. But I'm thinking after I get this whole situation figured out in Canada, I would love to start kind of mentoring people who wanna come here because there are so many things that, like, as we talked about today, that I wish I had known that, you know, it's so much easier if you just have somebody telling you that instead of spending hours figuring it out yourself.
[00:30:33] Kym: Absolutely. Gosh, an hour consult is well worth, you know, all the struggle if somebody already is like, yeah, do it this way. Ba Babu. Yeah.
[00:30:41] Sienna: And I, I think I linked my coaching page to you as well.
[00:30:43] Kym: Oh, great. Okay. So we've got it. Okay. So anybody listening, we'll have it all down in the show notes and you guys can, go check it out and get in contact with Sienna
[00:30:51] Sienna: Perfect. Yeah,
[00:30:52] Kym: or just Canada in general.
[00:30:53] It sounds like you've got some good tips anyway
[00:30:56] Sienna: yeah, yeah,
[00:30:57] Kym: Thank you so much.
[00:30:59] Sienna: You're welcome. Thanks so much.
[00:31:00] Kym: today.
[00:31:01] Sienna: Yeah, of course. Thanks so much for having me. It's been a joy.