Do you feel like no one understands your traveling mom lifestyle? In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I chat with Jaclyn Rubbo, LMFT, a licensed trauma therapist, mom, and founder of the Nomad Mom Club, about how her postpartum experience unexpectedly launched her into the world of travel and inspired her to create a space for other moms navigating the same lifestyle.
Jaclyn shares how becoming a mother shifted her perspective on work, life, and connection. From running a fully remote trauma therapy practice while living in a camper to launching a virtual support community for nomadic moms, she gets real about the beautiful chaos of blending motherhood, mental health, and mobility.
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Jaclyn:
Website - https://havencounselingservices.org/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mytherapistjaclyn
Instagram | Nomad Mom Club - https://www.instagram.com/nomadmomclub
Connect with me:
Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
Signup to learn more about life as a Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple iTunes | Spotify | Google Podcast | Stitcher | Amazon | Castbox
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Kym: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist podcast. Excited to have our guest today. She's doing some really cool stuff, and she's a traveling therapist. So, Jaclyn Rubbo, is here with us today.
[00:00:11] Jaclyn, I'd love if you'd start out and just tell us how'd you go from being like a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist?
[00:00:17] Jaclyn: Okay. Yeah, I'm happy to share that. I had a private practice after many years of working in community mental health. I was a clinical director of a rape crisis center before I got pretty burned out. I moved to Montana and started my private practice. And I had set up a practice that I love that was kind of a combination of in-person in Missoula, Montana, where I was living and virtually online with clients in California where I was licensed previously.
[00:00:43] And also a lot of people in Montana lived, it's a pretty big state with not a lot of support. So a lot of people were interested in telehealth who might be living around the state. And I loved it. It was a, the practice I had always dreamed of. And then I got pregnant and that's really where my traveling journey started, totally unexpectedly.
[00:01:03] So, I had my daughter and I was planning to take like three, maybe four months off. And during that time I didn't realize it at the time, but I probably was struggling with some postpartum anxiety. And about three months in, about a month before I was kind of planning to go back to work, I was like, we gotta go somewhere.
[00:01:22] I gotta get out of the house. So we took a little trip up to Glacier National Park. And it was such a magnificent place. It's a powerful place. But just being there with, you know, my family and being connected to nature and that sense of like exploring the world together.
[00:01:39] I remember having conversations with my husband around like I wish we could just do this more, you know, like he works remotely for himself and has traveled a lot, but my work kind of kept me stuck in our home base. And I also was very sleep deprived, like I said a little bit anxious and I really care about the work that I do with my clients, and I didn't feel like I could give them the same level of care and presence and intentionality that I was bringing before I had my baby.
[00:02:11] And so all these different factors kind of combined into us talking about, well, like do we have to really have to have me go back to work? Or could we extend this maternity leave together as a family more and, and travel and explore. So we decided after taking another trip in our camper down to Utah, we were in Moab for probably two weeks.
[00:02:33] Again, it was a really wonderful experience. My daughter was like, maybe five months at that time, we decided, let's go for it and decided to rent out our house for the winter and go take our camper down to Mexico. We did the Baja Peninsula for the winter. So it was a really, really great experience.
[00:02:52] And I think through the travels I started overcoming a lot of like that postpartum anxiety and the intrusive thoughts and just kinda like facing fears head on. Like I think a lot of people probably thought it was a little crazy to do that with baby. Yet I was the one having like the most anxious thoughts about it, but we had a great time and it was just really, really wonderful.
[00:03:13] And so, when we got back I was interested in getting some more training around maternal mental health and got some training with postpartum support International, doing a lot of like, just of my own learning around like matrescence and the process of becoming a mother and the identity shifts and, just, yeah, it just fully deepening my understanding of, of that a little bit more.
[00:03:35] And then, having that space to kind of disconnect from being all about work and my job as a therapist being so tied to my identity then dropping that completely for a while and then becoming a mom. The process of intentionally merging those things together and finding myself in all of it again, returning to therapy, I was really intentional about how I did that and part of it was staying virtual so that we could continue to spend time together as a family to explore and to nurture parts of myself outside of work only. So that's, that's kind of how I landed here.
[00:04:11] Kym: I just wanna back up a little bit 'cause I, I just love this story. So you were licensed to California, but moved to Montana and then did, did you then like, get a license in Montana at first and were you kinda like, I'm gonna have an office here now, or were you just seeing California clients? Maybe we could just break it down because there's so many steps in this process that I think are super helpful for people listening that are maybe like in all of these different stages.
[00:04:33] How did you like handle that part? Was it just like, I'm gonna see clients in California only, or I'm just gonna like see clients in Montana? Like what did you do about that piece in the beginning?
[00:04:40] Jaclyn: I did get my license in Montana as well. I think it was fairly simple going from California to Montana. It might have been a little bit more challenging the other way around but there was pretty easy reciprocity. So I got licensed in Montana and I did set up like most of my marketing for my private practice in Montana.
[00:05:00] Um, really my referrals from California, I wasn't in private practice when I left, so I, I was still in community mental health. So the referrals that I got from there were really from other therapists who knew me and had clients who they thought would be a good fit for me. But I wasn't really doing any marketing in California, and actually till this day, haven't done too much.
[00:05:18] It's, it's really just like relationships, which is such an important part of referrals. So I really put all my efforts into building my practice in Montana. I got a little office downtown started trying to build my network there and, you know, like, do you know, targeting my SEO and everything for Montana. But I was seeing clients virtually in California as well.
[00:05:38] Kym: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. And then you get pregnant, you have the baby maternity leave, and it's like, wait a second. This is like awesome. Like we're in Glacier or wherever and I don't wanna go back to this office that I have. So how did you like shut down the office and tell those clients I'm all telehealth.
[00:05:53] Like, what was that process like for you? Just for people listening? 'cause I get that question a lot. People are like, oh my gosh, my clients are never gonna wanna go all virtual. Or you know, like, how'd you make that decision and walk through that?
[00:06:05] Jaclyn: My clients, my previous caseload, you know, when I ended with them, the plan was that I would be back in three to four months. It ended up being about a year by the time I was back, and I had kept them updated around the process and got them referrals and all sorts of things. So I didn't really know if anyone would be still wanting to see me in person or not.
[00:06:23] But I did have a couple people who. We're like, ah, thank God I've been waiting. Right. And I wasn't trying to see as many clients as I was before. I had done a couple things to shift my practice to fit my new life, including raising my rate and being virtual only, and having a much more limited schedule just in terms of what my husband and I could work in terms of childcare.
[00:06:49] So I knew that there would be less spaces to fill and the people who it fit for would be the be the right fit. And so, many of these clients were virtual before or had at least done some virtual sessions, like if there's ever really bad, blizzards in Montana. Like I would much rather do videos and have someone like try to make it to my office and have an accident or something or if they're sick or anything like that.
[00:07:14] So it was a pretty smooth transition. And yeah, mostly those clients were just excited to be working together again. And then new clients, I just made it clear from the beginning like that this is remote only, and, and people were either looking for that or felt good about that if they determined that I was the right fit for them.
[00:07:35] Kym: That's awesome. so husband's remote too. So if I'm understanding correctly, y'all basically are working out of camper, right? I mean, or like a, is it rv, is it a camper? Like how, what,
[00:07:45] Jaclyn: We have a 20 foot travel trailer. I'm in it now. Yes. This is our, our mobile office and home. It's pretty small, it's just 21 feet. It's the three of us and a giant golden doodle. Um, Yeah. So we have, but really work together as a team to make the space work for everyone in terms of even like when I'm scheduling my sessions, I do it first thing in the morning when my husband, he's not a morning person, so he tends to have his brain turn on on at night.
[00:08:12] So he takes my daughter they go on adventures. They have their daddy daughter time, they go on hikes or play at the beach. There's only been a few times where we've been in really bad weather in like a remote place where they go into our truck and play in there, which she has fun doing it. She's two now. And yeah, and then, you know, when he has meetings, the same thing, I take her and we go and explore and spend a lot of time outside, which is really good for everybody.
[00:08:37] Kym: Oh, that's so fun. Oh my gosh. Because I always, I don't know, my boyfriend's like six four. He is like this huge guy and he is like, I could never live in a little space like that. So I just always wonder how these families, like my friend Amber, lived in a like a van with her husband for like a year and their two dogs.
[00:08:53] And I'm like, I don't know how you guys did in that little space. 'cause he's just so like big, he could never do it. But that, that's just really interesting to me. Yeah. And y'all have been doing
[00:09:02] Jaclyn: We spend a lot of time outside.
[00:09:04] Kym: Nice, and then I'm thinking like glacier, right? With like mountains and you know, even Montana with all the mountains and everything. Is it hard to get consistent internet or like, what's your solution for that?
[00:09:15] Jaclyn: We have starlink and it's been great, you know, as long as you have a clear enough spot. So there's only been a few times where we've had to. But we can't stay in that campground 'cause I have sessions or he has meetings. So we've, you know, gotten creative and found other places. But Baja is an amazing place for clear open skies 'cause you're right on the beach by the ocean.
[00:09:35] Honestly, our starlink sometimes is faster than the wifi that we had at home. So it comes with us wherever we go. And that was a really important part and especially for me, the first time we went down to Mexico, when my daughter was just a few months old, like knowing that we had communication with outside world that felt like a safety thing for me almost so.
[00:09:55] Kym: That's amazing. Such a good solution. Like everybody I talked to in your position is like starlink. That's the best for sure. Yeah, we bought a mini starlink and it didn't work very well, but I think it's because there were like trees in the place where we were trying to use it.
[00:10:09] Um, But anyway, all of that, right? And then you've done something really cool also on top of what you're already doing. So let's talk about the Nomad Mom Club. I would love to just talk about it, get in depth about it and how you created it and what you talk about in there. I think that's probably so helpful to other nomadic mothers, yeah.
[00:10:29] Jaclyn: Yeah, it's been a really fun thing for me to work on because it's brought all these different aspects of who I am into something to create for others. So Nomad Mom Club is a support community for moms who are living the traveling lifestyle, and I think. You know, what is a nomad mom? To me, it's anyone who feels different than the people in their hometown who are staying there all the time.
[00:10:54] Maybe they're traveling all the time on their kids breaks or you know, like me, maybe they're part-time like seasonal nomad. Like I, get out of here in the long winter months, or they're full-time in a bus or a sailboat. Which is our hopeful next move. But we have some, we have some sailing moms in there.
[00:11:12] Um, So yeah, just where your lifestyle is is different and it's focused around travel or maybe you're an expat family, like living in another country for a year or whatever it may be. And so it's a space for moms to come together and support each other and connect authentically about the joys and the challenges of this lifestyle.
[00:11:31] Many moms talk about feeling like their support network back home doesn't quite get it. They either see that they're like living a life of vacation, which, you know, there's a lot of joys to this lifestyle, but it is still real life with real life challenges or feel like if there's a challenge to be like, well, maybe you should just come home and, you know, buy a house and, and settle down.
[00:11:53] So just a place to, to share the whole, experiences and then the unique experience as moms often holding the emotional and mental load. Many moms are homeschooling and, you know, holding the desire to support their children's development and their learning.
[00:12:10] So it's a place for us to take care of each other, to be seen, to be understood, share resources. We do two live support circle calls a month, and then we have a lot of asynchronous support because, traveling sometimes it's on the move. It's hard to be in a certain place in a certain time and have enough wifi or children settled to hop on a call.
[00:12:31] It's sort of like a private Facebook group in a different platform where we have different discussions going on, resource sharing, themes this month we are focusing on intentional movement and supporting each other and how to work within this life to be taking care of ourselves in that way.
[00:12:49] And then people contribute their gifts to the community. I really wanted it to be a space where it's a, it's a true community where we give and we receive. And so, for example, one of our community members is a personal trainer, so she leads workout classes, like no equipment, workout classes for moms who wanna hop on and take that time to like have that community support to get, and make that time for themselves. So it's been really fun so far, and um, it's
[00:13:15] Kym: What a cool thing. So, yeah, I mean, part of what we talk about on this podcast is not only being a therapist and nomadic or whatever, but also like other income streams or other ways to branch out from just being that one-to-one therapist.
[00:13:28] So it's really cool to hear that you've, you've done this, you know, and, and. i'm just curious, like what's the process been like for you? Have there been any lessons learned along the way, like trying to start a community that you might wanna share with somebody else that might wanna do something like that or you know, trial and error with, finding different platforms.
[00:13:45] Like all my stuff's on Facebook, but I often think that's probably a mistake. So you've got it in another place, which I think is really smart. Can we talk about that a little bit? Like what that's been like for you. Like the creation part.
[00:13:54] Jaclyn: Sure. I mean, I'm yeah, I'm still pretty early on in it, so. I feel like I'm learning so much every day. I, I think the process of like getting the word out about it, I'm like still in that process. And it's a lot of, I've been leaning into the social media aspect of it because I think a lot of these travel families are on Instagram, for example.
[00:14:17] So like the content creation, for me, the biggest learning moment that I'm still kind of in is how to balance the hustle of like building something new with like the intention of what it is. So like my intention of Nomad Mom Club is to support moms to feel well and to feel connected.
[00:14:37] And I found that I was like every nap time, late at night, working, squeezing in every place here and there. Not taking time for myself in, in the process. So that balance of building something new that I really am passionate about and excited about that brings me a lot of fulfillment except, there's things you do that have to do as a business owner that aren't as fulfilling.
[00:15:00] And, um, trying to figure out, you know, the balance of it. Because I was like, if I'm burning myself out in the spirit of helping these moms not burn out, then that defeats the purpose. Like, I get to matter in this process too.
[00:15:14] So I'm still, you know, trying to find my balance with that. And, now that the community is actually live, it's actually been really helpful for me too, to stay accountable and having these conversations with other moms, so.
[00:15:27] Kym: Yeah. So you're even able in that space to share like maybe I'm doing too much, or maybe I need better boundaries, or be able to manage this stuff a little more effectively. Yeah,
[00:15:35] Jaclyn: Yeah, I, was intentional that this wasn't therapy, like it is not, it's different boundaries for me than I have with my clients. Because, you know, if I'm being honest, part of it is for me too. Like, I am a part of this community and I'm the holder of our intentions and some you know, like group agreements.
[00:15:54] And I, I hold the frame in some instances, but I am no more knowledgeable or, you know, I don't have the answers. Like many of these moms have been traveling much longer than me. Many of these moms have been mothers much longer than me. So really just like, I'm organizing the community for us, including me.
[00:16:14] Kym: That's so cool. Yeah. And just noting it's not just for nomadic mom therapists, it's for like all nomadic moms. Right. There's like, it's very general and open to that audience. Yeah. That's amazing.
[00:16:26] another thing I thought we could touch on a little bit is this really unique modality that you use in your therapy practice. Because I think another thing that comes up a lot is like, how do I manage this modality I wanna do and be online and like being able to still see my clients effectively and all of that while you're like in Glacier National Park or something. So can we talk a little bit about this modality that you use used? Because I read about it and I was like, I don't feel like I know a lot about it really.
[00:16:49] Jaclyn: Oh, I'm happy to. The primary modality that I use is called NARM, which stands for the NeuroAffective Relational Model, and it is a newer approach to specifically complex trauma. And it's different than the approaches that I would use for shock trauma. Like I am also trained in EMDR, for example.
[00:17:07] I learned about NARM from a former supervisor who was a somatic experiencing practitioner. And I learned a lot from her around SE. But when I was working in the sexual violence center, I realized that with a lot of my clients who were adults who were healing from child sexual abuse. Their symptoms were not the same as like the shock trauma, you know, nightmares and flashbacks and hypervigilance and that sort of thing.
[00:17:34] They were working through a lot more around shame and the you know, oftentimes it's someone that they trusted who violated them. So the relational trauma aspects, and I felt like I was kind of pulling pieces from here and there, and I was getting good results with clients, but I personally felt a little bit scattered as a therapist, like I felt like a little bit ungrounded.
[00:17:57] And when the supervisor told me about NARM and I looked into it, I had this sense of like, okay, this is actually bringing in all these different pieces that I've been pulling in from other modalities in a really organizing way that helped me feel really settled and intentional in working with clients with through the, the shame and the relational trauma aspects.
[00:18:17] And, and those were the clients that I, I really loved working with. So I, when I went into private practice, that's sort of what I specialized in and ended up going through this, The NARM training.
[00:18:27] And so NARM it's specifically for complex trauma. And it's a very integrated model. It's a top down, bottom up model, and it focuses on the ways in which we had to adapt in order to survive the environmental failures in our early childhoods, what we had to do in order to stay in connection with our primary attachment figures. And a lot of that is having to disconnect from ourselves, our needs, our emotions, our bodies.
[00:18:58] And so it's the process of supporting that reconnection, and looking at the ways in which we then internalize those failures and recreate those dynamics that ultimately end up causing us more harm down the line.
[00:19:12] One of the things I really love about NARM is that it is non regressive. So we don't have to go back into the memory specifically. We're working in the here and now and what they are doing, where they have agency in their present life so that it is really, an empowering model. It's supporting them to like expand their capacities to feel agency in their life, to be connected to their like adult self, who most of the time are safe.
[00:19:42] another thing that I really love about NARM is there's a focus on the relationship and our humanness our clients and our own as the therapist. So, really using our own like, understanding of our own countertransference and intentionally coming with our clients, not with this intention to fix them or make them feel differently, but coming with, curiosity, connection to our heart and our humanity and the intention of supporting them in what they're wanting for themselves, not what behaviors they need to change, or what symptoms we need to reduce, you know, from a, like a clinical model. And so it's a really empowering and humanizing model.
[00:20:25] And I find that it works really well for virtual therapy because it's not, re-traumatizing. We support clients to feel their emotions in a contained and way that really supports integration instead of like catharsis or dysregulation. And it, yeah, it really supports clients to feel empowered in themselves.
[00:20:48] So it's not like, oh, Jaclyn, I need you to help me with this. It's like they're seeing how they are helping themselves. I think it's a really good fit for virtual therapy, especially with complex trauma, which is such you know, a complex client base to work with, so.
[00:21:03] Kym: Really, yeah, I remember when I went all online and 'cause I'm MDR trained too and you know, having to, you know, in the office, right, they had those little, I used those tappers that they would hold onto the tappers and it would go back and forth and, or a light bar or something. But you always run the risk right of them dissociating in session or you know, if they're DID at all, like kind of like going to alters or something like that. So I like this idea of being more like present and using tools that maybe, and you don't have to use a light bar, or I guess you don't have to. I guess you don't have, I don't know if you do have tools like that, but definitely when I went virtual, I had to adapt a lot to, you know, like what kind of tool if I'm gonna be able to share my screen.
[00:21:40] And now it's like a bouncing ball they have to watch and it's like they seem like they're here, but you know, there's always that fear of your virtual and what if we lose the connection and they're like in some altered state, like all of that was definitely a concern when I first went all online and trying to continue with like my, you know, high acuity trauma clients that I was doing EMDR with.
[00:22:00] Like, that was a huge transition for me. So I like the idea of this, when I was reading through the information you shared before the podcast, I was like, this is super interesting and I don't know anything about it, so I'm glad you're sharing it.
[00:22:11] Jaclyn: Yeah, I wish more people knew about NARM I'm happy to be sharing about it too, because it's been such a game changer for me in my practice. And, you know, I was fairly burnt out when I started my private practice and that's when I came into NARM and I got to really have the space to look at my own internal stuff that was contributing to burnout.
[00:22:32] It wasn't just that I was seeing X amount of high trauma caseload. There were things that I was bringing to the table around like over responsibility or unmanaged empathy or thinking that I needed to get this person to feel better. You know, that was ultimately, like that was my own stuff.
[00:22:50] And I think it's pretty normalized in our profession to burn out because of, of this stuff. And, and NARM helped me to find, very like still compassionate and intentional way of showing up with my clients, but it is so much more respectful to like my humanity and theirs and they've actually done some research to see like therapists who are trained in NARM actually are less likely to burn out and feel more resilient with complex clients.
[00:23:19] And that's where we're paying attention to our own humanity. Which, like a lot of models focus on the skills that we're giving to our clients. Um, It's really powerful to have the space for that.
[00:23:29] Kym: That's amazing. And being a nomadic mom with a husband that's got, you know, a different, y'all are having to like, you know, transition between this little space and swapping childcare and all of that. Like, I think it's really important because it's fun. It sounds fun, but it is harder in my opinion, really is, you know, being nomadic in a lot of ways it's harder.
[00:23:49] Jaclyn: Yes. And that's why I, I, another reason why I really love this modality, even before I was traveling, but I've always been, ugh, I always get this, like, I don't wanna, when I have to, like prepare a worksheet or find this thing, like I love the, the present moment orientation is, so it's in service for our clients, but it works for me as well that, I just have to make sure that I am, present and available and clear on how I'm showing up and kind of grounded in why I'm doing what I'm doing in the moment. I don't have to do a lot of prep and stuff before. And yes, it is sometimes hard if they're like rushing to get out, Hey, no, she needs her umbrella or like, whatever to get out the door.
[00:24:29] If I don't give myself enough time to like sit before I hop on on the session. So that's kind of just a logistical challenge, but I do feel like having more space in my life to feel grounded, to feel and connection with my family and nature and parts of myself that you know, experience joy and adventure, like all these things that living this lifestyle can bring, helps me to have more presence in how I show up for my clients.
[00:24:59] And so like there are times when I'm like, you know, we can get in our heads about like, oh, I, I'm feeling, you know, a sense of guilt that I'm on a beach in Mexico and my client is here talking to me about this despair that they're currently going through.
[00:25:14] But at the same time, the reality is. How I'm living my life is allowing me to show up for them with much more intentionality and clarity. And it's ultimately better for them to have a therapist who's, living life in a way that is serving them, so.
[00:25:31] Kym: Absolutely. Oh, I love that so much. That's such a good way to end this. It's perfect. So how do people find you if they wanna join the Nomad Mom Club or work with you or learn about NARM, how did they find you?
[00:25:42] Jaclyn: For Nomad Mom Club, the best way is probably on Instagram. We're just on Instagram at Nomad Mom Club. We're, I think we're on Facebook too. Send me a message or you can find the links to join there. And then, as far as my private practice, my website is Haven Counseling services.org. And I am licensed in California and Montana.
[00:26:03] I love working with other therapists too. I know some therapists don't, but I love it. And anyone who's wanting to heal the dynamics from their childhood that are getting in the way of the adulthood that they wanna live, and wanting to do virtual therapy. That's a great fit client for me.
[00:26:19] And NARM, I think it's the, I think it's NARM Training Institute. If you Google NARM, you'll find it. But I'm happy to talk with anyone about NARM too, if they have questions about that. And I am thinking about offering supervision for people who are going through the NARM training too. So if anyone is interested in that I'd be open to chatting.
[00:26:38] Kym: I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today to share your story. It sounds just amazing what you're doing. Yeah.
[00:26:44] Jaclyn: Thank you so much. Thank you for all the resources that you provide, the Traveling therapist community and a space to share and the challenges and support one another, and I think we're on a shared mission in our own ways.
[00:26:56] Kym: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, what a cool thing. The Nomad Mom Club, when I read that, I was like, oh my God, this is awesome. It's like so needed. I'm sure.