Have you ever dreamed about living as an expat therapist? Well, today I’m catching up with Maggie Dickens, a licensed therapist and relationship coach, who’s been doing just that for the past 18 months. You might remember Maggie from episode 82, where we talked all about her plans to move abroad. Now she’s back to share what it's really like living as an expat therapist in Portugal.
Maggie fills us in on how she’s settled into her new life, adjusted her work and personal routines, and built a sense of community in Lisbon. We also chat about how living abroad has changed her perspective on work, travel, and finding balance. If you’ve ever thought about making a move abroad or just want to hear what expat life is really like, you’re going to love this episode!
In This Episode, We Explore…
Connect with Maggie:
www.unapologeticallychildfree.com
www.instagram.com/childfree_communities
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Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course: www.kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai
Signup to learn more about life as Traveling Therapist: https://www.portablepracticemethod.com/free-training
The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. Really excited today to have a guest back. She is, she was our, Maggie Dickens is here. Her last episode was episode 82, where we talked about her process of relocating to Portugal, an expat's journey, tax benefits, and dog adventures is what I called that episode.
[00:01:40] Kym: So Maggie has now been in Portugal for 18 months and You know, in the light of we had an election here in the United States, a lot of people in the traveling therapist group are saying, you know, I want to leave the country. How do I do that? Of course, I refer them back to Maggie's old episode, but then Maggie and I were talking and we were like, let's do a catch up.
[00:02:01] Like, how is it now that you're an ex pat, you've been gone for 18 months? And just catch everybody up, but just talk about some considerations, how it's going, all of that good stuff. So Maggie, I'm so glad you're here. I'd love for you to introduce yourself, tell everybody a little bit about you and tell them about your Bali trip also
[00:02:17] Maggie: All
[00:02:18] Kym: that I wish I could go to.
[00:02:19] Maggie: oh, I know, it'd be so amazing if you come, all I talk about is Bali these days. So I'm Maggie Dickens, I'm a licensed therapist in Texas and in Florida, LPC. Telehealth in Florida. And I'm a relationship coach, primarily working with childfree folks who are looking to enhance their romantic and platonic and familial relationships.
[00:02:42] And I host an online community called Unapologetically Childfree, and we're going to Bali in April and it's going to be epic.
[00:02:50] Kym: time you post it in the traveling therapist group, I'm like, Oh my God, I want to go on that trip so bad.
[00:02:55] Maggie: what's really interesting is living in Europe. One of the things that I've noticed is more and more, the conversation was always there about how Europeans holiday versus those from the United States. I'm going to, we're going to Bali for seven nights and then my boyfriend and I are going to do a night in In Vietnam.
[00:03:17] And then a couple of nights in Cambodia on the way back to Portugal. And I'm so excited about this. This is two weeks away from work and this is going to be great. And if anybody's ever hosted a retreat or anything like that, you know, that I'm not going to, Bolly's going to be fun, but it's going to be work.
[00:03:34] Kym: Yeah. Hmm.
[00:03:36] Maggie: why aren't you just taking the month? That's such a long travel to get to Bali. Just take the month or you and I have talked about, you know, being traveling therapists, we're able to bring our computer, bring our work with us. And people are saying, why not just spend more time in Cambodia or something like that?
[00:03:52] And it's such a hard switch to go from that. United States mindset of work looks this specific way work has to be this kind of way vacation or holiday or travel. I think of those as 3 different things. That looks very different. And so even 18 months in, I'm still, still struggling with what a true vacation looks like, or what a true looks like.
[00:04:20] Kym: Oh my gosh, I hear you. Before we hit record, I was just telling Maggie, like my boyfriend and I, we just got to Florida like late last night after so much driving and we were both like, we are just. Fucking done with this.
[00:04:32] Maggie: Yeah,
[00:04:34] Kym: exhausted because I mean you're so right like there's for me. There's no transition It's like we are traveling we are living I am working and this is every day of my life and every week almost we're moving to a different place and it's like That concept of slow travel and just slowing it down Let's just do like three months in a place where a while is so appealing to me right now because I am burned Out trying to do all that, trying to work and like hop on the computer and a new Airbnb every, you know, like this is a brand new place.
[00:05:03] The set up, the lighting, everything's different. It's like such an adjustment, you know, it's exhausting.
[00:05:07] Maggie: I remember when you started and I think you were two weeks at a time and I told you, I was like, there's no way the way my brain works and like my boyfriend and I have even talked about like what happens after Portugal. And. So for those who haven't heard the first episode, I think it was like almost an hour long, something like that.
[00:05:26] And I barely cracked the surface of like what it takes to actually move over here. And so hopefully we'll talk about what it's like to live here, but that process, unless you're going, unless you have no pets, no children, which you and I, neither of us have children, but I do have three dogs. And between the two of us, we have three dogs and I'm not completely just like, unlimited funds.
[00:05:52] So it's difficult. You have to say, like. Where are you going to go? What's in your budget? How long can you stay there? What are the implications for working in this place and all of this kind of stuff? So we're thinking about what happens after Portugal, which is probably five years from now. But we're already thinking about it because what would that look like?
[00:06:12] What would it entail? Cause it's not as easy to just jump unless you're going to do what you're doing, right? And be a full digital nomad and be in this country for one month and this country for another two weeks. And then this one for a
[00:06:25] couple of
[00:06:25] Kym: hmm. Mm
[00:06:26] Maggie: my brain doesn't work that way.
[00:06:28] It's too much.
[00:06:29] Kym: I'm rethinking the whole thing. I'm like, so burned out. I mean, we can't even like, like find the can opener. Like you get to an Airbnb and it's like, why, why doesn't this place have a can opener? It's like, I know we have one. It's at the bottom of some bin in Ken's car. I mean, it's just like little things like that. It's just, if you're not super organized, like, you know, it's just, it's fun for a while, but now it's like really getting to this place where it's like, I need to.
[00:06:55] we need to reassess how we're doing this because we're both like, we're, we're crabby. We're yelling at each other. You know, I mean, it's like all of that. It's like he's, he's pissy. He can't find this. He's huffing and puffing. I'm like, stop yelling at me. You know, it's like this whole thing.
[00:07:09] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:07:10] Kym: So,
[00:07:11] Maggie: That's, that's one of the things that I love about fully immigrating to, to Portugal versus what I've seen people who don't have animals. It's a lot easier if you don't have animals and children, I can't imagine. So I, anyone who's listening who has children, I cannot help you.
[00:07:31] Kym: That is not Maggie's wheelhouse or mine.
[00:07:33] Maggie: yeah, I, there are people.
[00:07:35] There are ways that people bring their kids to another country and find good schools and find friendships for those people, for the little ones and whatever. I don't know how
[00:07:43] Kym: people
[00:07:44] Maggie: So, The thing that I like about immigrating is, I mean, I'm 18 months in and there's two things that have happened because of who I am.
[00:07:54] I mean, I'm quite introverted and I'm a creature of habit. So I do find that I have found my structure, like what my life looks like. But that also means that I haven't really explored Portugal. I don't have a, we don't have a car here. We use public transit, so going out of Lisbon, we're, you know, that would be a bus or a train and we don't go out very much out of, out of Lisbon.
[00:08:22] We're really just exploring Lisbon. We haven't even jumped on the cheap train. Ryanair whiz flights, except a couple of times. And it's just really easy to live your life, even in a different country. And so when a lot of people say like, what's it like to live in, in Lisbon or live in Portugal or be an expat?
[00:08:42] And I'm like, well, It depends on what day you ask me, because last week was the U S Thanksgiving. And so we had a big international Friendsgiving. It's my second Friendsgiving here. And last year was all U S citizens. This year was opened up to some international friends, some who had never done a Thanksgiving dinner before, and that was super fun and that was really amazing.
[00:09:08] And then there's today where I have not left this chair. I
[00:09:12] Kym: yeah.
[00:09:12] Maggie: All day. So it's the same as being in the States. So sometimes it's feels very different. And I'm going out and doing things with just people I would have never met culture surrounded by culture that I never would have experienced, but everywhere you go, there you are.
[00:09:28] Right. So Maggie, who likes to sit and read a book or have a glass of wine in the evening versus go out and explore and stay out really late, like I'm still here.
[00:09:39] Kym: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:09:41] Maggie: think that's important too when people are like, I just want to go and run away and I'm like, I ran away. I like ran real far, real fast.
[00:09:49] But I came along with me. So that's important. Mmm.
[00:09:55] Kym: this point or does it feel like. The best decision. You're so happy even though it's just, I mean, you've kind of relocated your, yourself and your person to a city in Lisbon and you're fine and you're not really exploring out. Does that feel great? Or is it like, do you wish you hadn't committed to like, you know, the visa and this is where I'm going to live and all of that?
[00:10:15] Like, I'm just curious how you're feeling about that.
[00:10:18] Maggie: Every now and again, I will have this thought because I had a couple of friends who asked me that question. They were like, do you really want to commit? to the visa process
[00:10:30] in Portugal. Cause when I was looking to move to central and South America, I was looking to, to go to places that didn't require you to apply for a visa.
[00:10:39] So I had really long tourist visas or those kinds of things, or to do the border runs that a lot of people do, which is really hard and the Schengen.
[00:10:48] Kym: Yeah.
[00:10:49] Maggie: and they were like, we'll watch your dogs. And you go to Costa Rica for three months or go to Belize for a month or wherever it was that I was looking or even go to Portugal for three months.
[00:11:03] On the tourist and then come back and see what you think.
[00:11:06] Kym: Yeah.
[00:11:07] Maggie: And since I was, I was literally running away from, from heartbreak. I was like, no, no, no, no.
[00:11:13] Kym: I'm out of here.
[00:11:14] Maggie: I'm out of here. My, my internal survival runner was like, bye. Sometimes I do regret a little bit only because. Because of the way that things kind of unfolded, I think I spent a little bit more money in, you and I've talked about this, like saving things.
[00:11:32] I have stuff in the U S that I'm like, why didn't I just cut my losses, sell it for less than what it was worth just to get rid of it? I think when I first moved here, I got a place that was furnished, so I didn't spend a lot of time. Decorating and now I've been here almost two years. My lease is started in February.
[00:11:54] So for those that listened to the first episode for the visa, you have to have a 12 month lease before you can even
[00:12:00] Kym: Sight unseen in some cases.
[00:12:02] Maggie: this was empty for three months that I was paying for before I could even move over.
[00:12:06] Kym: Yeah. Wow.
[00:12:07] Maggie: So I'm here at two years and I'm like, Just starting to get settled in, in terms of finding decor and making it more of my own.
[00:12:16] And I think those are a couple of the regrets of maybe it would have been smarter to spend maybe six months doing true traveling therapists. Let my dogs be taken care of with my friends and having a better idea of like what, where would I want it to be instead of hanging all of my hopes and dreams into Portugal.
[00:12:37] But on the flip side of it, I'm like, I wish I would have allowed Portugal to feel like home a lot faster.
[00:12:44] Kym: Ah, interesting. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. So does it feel like home now? Or, or, yeah. Mm-hmm
[00:12:52] Maggie: I, think that's part of finding your community. So
[00:12:56] Kym: Mm-hmm
[00:12:57] Maggie: when people talk about like, what's it like to be, you know, to live abroad, everybody's going to give you a different answer based off of their community. And I live in Lisbon, which is the capital city. So it's a vibrant, it's full of digital nomads throughout the world.
[00:13:13] So there are some people who I meet who are here for three months and then you never see them again versus people who live out in smaller cities. They're gonna tell you, hey, one, they had to learn Portuguese a whole lot faster than I have because I'm terrible at it still, because I get away with just speaking English and you see the same people all the time, and here it's not necessarily the case.
[00:13:36] So it does feel like home, but it also it feels weird that it feels like home, if that makes sense. Like
[00:13:43] Kym: hmm. Yeah.
[00:13:45] Maggie: my body
[00:13:45] Kym: No, I get it.
[00:13:46] Maggie: here, but
[00:13:47] Kym: Yeah. No, I totally get it. I mean, it's even a weird phenomenon for us. Like every time we get to an Airbnb, it takes about like 12 hours and it's like, do I live here? I feel like I live here. It's so weird. Like I could just settle in anywhere and just like, hop in the bed and go to sleep.
[00:14:02] It used to be like, this is a weird place. You know, what are these sounds, the pops and noises? But now it's just like, I'm, I'm done. It's like, I get in and it's just like, literally, I feel like I live here now. It's so weird.
[00:14:12] Maggie: And I don't know if that's a good thing or not because there's the, there's the settled feeling, right. And then there's also, so. The last time you and I spoke on the podcast my, and I had just talked about this. Like I ran away from heartbreak, my boyfriend and I broke up
[00:14:26] Kym: Mm hmm.
[00:14:27] Maggie: and we got back together while I was living abroad and
[00:14:31] Kym: Oh, okay. I was wondering, I was like, wait, isn't that your boyfriend? Okay.
[00:14:35] Maggie: know it's
[00:14:36] Kym: have to have an all episode about that. What happens to Maggie's life?
[00:14:39] Maggie: it's full Hallmark movie that ended very Hallmark esque where he
[00:14:43] Kym: Aw, okay. Nice.
[00:14:45] Maggie: of uprooted his whole world. And one of the things, I think, There's two things there. One, because he went through, I helped him with the visa process, which was a different visa.
[00:14:56] I came over on what was called the D7. That was back then, you could come over on active income as long as it wasn't actively earned in Portugal. So my US based income counted as active income. Non active income. Now they have a digital nomad visa, which is what you come over if you have active income.
[00:15:18] Kym: Nice.
[00:15:18] Maggie: And so that's what my my boyfriend came over on. And so I think the time feels a little bit shorter that I've been here because. I did the visa process twice. I helped him settle in. So there's been settling in twice. There's been unpacking and packing twice and all of that. And I think one of the difficulties of like getting settled in really fast is like I said, where so this is a skylight and I'm sitting underneath the skylight and I'm looking at the trees and I'm looking at the sky.
[00:15:49] And if I stood up, I could see a couple of historic landmarks and. It's just so normal that I think I'm getting a little bit immune to it versus he's still so new he's six months in and He just he wants to go and see and he's like what's that building and what's going on here? And he gets a little bit of that culture question of like what what's happening is, you know And I'm just like, Oh, that's, that's just, that's a very Portuguese thing to do or say, or that's very Lisbon or, Oh yeah, that's been there.
[00:16:22] Right. And I think some of the, the newness has worn off, which I don't know if I like,
[00:16:28] Kym: Mm hmm.
[00:16:29] Maggie: you know?
[00:16:29] Kym: I totally get that. Like for two years, right? When COVID hit and everything, we were living on in Hollywood, Florida on the oceanfront. Our condo overlooked the ocean. Every morning we woke up in the bed and you know, had this beautiful view. And at first it's like, this is amazing. Oh my God. Every day you wake up, it's like, I can't believe I live here.
[00:16:50] And then a year in, it's like, you don't even look out the window anymore, you know, it's like this is I'm literally have a gorgeous oceanfront view near almost south beach You know in florida, miami and it's like it just you get immune to it, you know, and and and it's I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing because like We'll live in a place for a couple of weeks and we're like, okay, we're done.
[00:17:10] We we've seen it been there done that Let's go. Let's go to the next place So it's like almost like it desensitizes you to ever being able to just be like Stable in one place forever because it's like the thought of that seems so boring to me now, you know
[00:17:22] Maggie: Yeah, well it, that, see, that's interesting. Like for me, I'm such a homebody that like the idea of staying put sounds lovely, I just think about like, how can I have the best of both worlds? I like the idea that Portugal is my home. I've gone back to the States now. Several times because of helping my boyfriend move over and then going back to see family and when I go back to the States, there's definite reverse culture shock. There's I immediately don't feel as safe as because I picked a very safe country to live in.
[00:17:56] And because it feels like home and because I have that United States productivity brain, that millennial gold star seeking achiever, you know, parts of me that it's hard for me when I see like a really cheap flight to go to like Bordeaux, I constantly am seeing Ryanair flights for like 30 euro to go to Bordeaux, France.
[00:18:22] But often, to get those, you're flying like Tuesday to Thursday or something like that, which as a traveling therapist, no big deal. But in my brain, I'm like, I just want to go on, like I want to go visit Bordeaux. I don't want to work there. And so I haven't spent as much time bouncing around Europe as much as I thought I would in the last 18 months.
[00:18:43] And like I mentioned, I haven't seen nearly as much of Portugal as I thought I would have in this 18 months. And a lot of that is, I, I have a big practice. I, I love what I do. I love that being able to be in Europe, there's, And surrounded by other immigrants and and expats that I'm surrounded by a lot of childfree people.
[00:19:04] So we do a lot of that side of my businesses is growing and the relationship coaching is growing, but that means I'm busy. And it's hard, you know, between boarding the dog, or getting a dog sitter, I have special dogs. So getting a dog sitter and all of that, it's hard to just pack up and leave for a couple of days.
[00:19:24] But, we're hoping to do more of that after Bali. So
[00:19:29] after the
[00:19:29] Bali trip we hope to do more of that,
[00:19:31] Kym: Yeah, that's so interesting. I mean, I, I think we, I talk about it in this podcast some, but like this idea of if you're a traveling therapist, you're going to go to each new place and it's like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to see all the historic sites. I'm going to do all the hikes. I'm going to see all the cool places, you know, but then you, you get to these places and really maybe I'll do one thing, you know, and it took me a long time to like I'm actually just living in these places. I'm still working like a lot. I work too much, you know? Yeah. And
[00:19:59] Maggie: Feel you.
[00:19:59] Kym: boyfriend's like semi retired, so he's got all day with nothing to do, you know, so it's like a
[00:20:04] whole, it's like a whole thing, you know, and then accepting that, like you said, okay, I'm not going to be able to go to Bordeaux right now because it's just not, in the realm of possibilities really.
[00:20:13] So accepting the fact that even though I'm like in a different place all the time, I'm not necessarily like living this like tourist lifestyle where I'm doing all this really cool stuff. It's still, like you said, wherever you go, there you are. I'm still like. Um, Doing the stuff that I would do even if I was just stuck in one place forever, you know, kind of thing.
[00:20:30] Yeah.
[00:20:31] Maggie: I think one, something I was thinking about earlier today, because I knew that you and I were going to be talking, and I also have been talking with another traveling therapist who used to live in Eastern Europe and has now moved to Central America. And just talking about differences in cultures and, you know, plans and all of these kinds of things.
[00:20:52] The traveling therapist community really is tight. You find your people, you'll get some great advice and, and support. And I was thinking about if, if I were to ever move back into similar time zones as the U. S., what would that look like for me? Because when I moved over here, all I asked for All of my clients to shift from seeing me from lunchtime into right around the end of the workday into seeing me pre workday into lunchtime
[00:21:22] hours so that I could keep my schedule of, I start work one or noon, 1, 2 PM, and then typically finish at the, you know, in the evening, right before dinner.
[00:21:35] And. I don't know. I really enjoy, I did that in the States. It worked really well. I was able to keep my schedule. My clients were the ones that moved and I'm so grateful for them to, to have been flexible enough to do that. I don't know if I could go back. I don't know if I could move to Mexico, let's
[00:21:52] say.
[00:21:54] And then I'm like, I have 6am clients.
[00:21:56] Kym: Yeah.
[00:21:57] Maggie: My brain doesn't work at 6 a. m. Like there's, I think that would be a big transition of, of, my life now, which is really nice because I'm in Southern Europe. It's not like Spain in that it's like Spain, but not Spain in that dinner, the sweet spot for dinner is like 9 p.
[00:22:14] m. So we're up until about midnight every night. And aside from waking up 7. 45 in the morning to feed and let the dogs out. You know, I'm in bed until 9. 30, 10 in the morning, every day. That I really like. Get up. It's, it's December and you and I
[00:22:33] are talking. I have the window open. The sun is shining.
[00:22:36] It's a little chilly. It's like 20 degrees Celsius, which I don't know what that
[00:22:39] is in, in Fahrenheit. But it's, I'm in a t
[00:22:42] Kym: Yeah.
[00:22:42] Maggie: Like, I, I would, I would have a jacket on if I went outside for longer than like five minutes, but it's, it's gorgeous out and It's gorgeous. That I think I have not lost the appreciation of how much sunshine is here and how this is an outdoor community and It's very much a communal Experience versus in the States.
[00:23:03] It's very individualistic you if you go outside you go to your back patio or your balcony if you're in an apartment and here you go to the kiosk and you get an espresso or a Glass of wine or what have you
[00:23:15] and you're you're amongst
[00:23:16] your community members your neighborhood your neighbors you
[00:23:19] Kym: I love that. Yeah. And that really is something to think about. I mean, if you're moving frequently within large time
[00:23:25] zone differences, like maybe Portugal to Mexico or something like that, like you either you're adjusting or you're going to have to readjust your whole caseload to adapt to wherever you're living, which is a big deal.
[00:23:36] I just, I love that. I just built this really cool thing. I haven't released it yet. This is your hearing the first this cool GPT chat GPT you got, you know, I'm obsessed with AI a time zone converter for traveling therapist But it's like a whole thing like it builds the schedule It helps write templates for your clients and one of the considerations I put in there is like this ideal customer for this This GPT basically might be moving time zones very frequently.
[00:24:03] So I need you to help me develop a strategy to talk to my clients about exactly what we're talking about right now. It's like, okay, I might see you at 6 a. m. now, but in three months you're going to need to move to 3 p. m. if you want to keep working with me, like that kind of thing
[00:24:15] Maggie: Yeah, yeah
[00:24:18] Kym: to help like traveling therapists navigate that whole thing. And. I haven't released it yet, but it's probably next week I'm gonna release it. 'cause I'm super excited. It's part of the portable practice method. Just plugging that while I'm talking about this episode, it's
[00:24:30] Maggie: I love
[00:24:31] Kym: within my new course that I'm releasing in mid-January, so I'm super excited
[00:24:35] about it.
[00:24:35] Mm-hmm
[00:24:36] Maggie: I think that's amazing because we do see in the traveling therapist space or even in just a digital nomad space or anyone who's working I Anybody who's working stateside here, people are often talking like, Oh, what are your hours? And because I own my own business, I don't work a full nine to five East coast or, you know, central time zone.
[00:25:02] So I have that flexibility. I do know people who are technically supposed to be working until 11 PM midnight. Doing their whatever job for their, for their corporate life. And I do know a couple of therapists who have Pacific time zone clients. And so for them, they really do work a little bit later into the evening and that works for them.
[00:25:23] And I thought that would work for me too. I had some evening clients when I first moved here. I, I now have one day a week where I see one client at 4 PM and one client at 5 PM central time. So that's 10 and 11 PM my time. Yeah. That is one day a week. It is on Wednesdays. And it just fits into my schedule instead of, I think I was doing it two or three days a week when I first moved.
[00:25:49] Cause I was like, what does it matter? I'm going to eat dinner. I'll go see a client and then I'll go to bed. Like no big deal. I'm up that late anyway. And I would really recommend anyone who's thinking about like, Oh, I'm going to just work later hours because I'm already a late night person. I am a late night person, but my.
[00:26:09] Brain also shuts off. So I have to realize like one of the things I'm really good at in the morning is I'm good at computer work in the morning.
[00:26:19] So that's what I do when I wake up is even though I'm not working in with clients until, you know, 2 p. m. let's say, probably starting around 1130 noon, I'm on my computer doing
[00:26:32] admin
[00:26:32] work or, doing marketing stuff for the
[00:26:34] unapologetically child free community.
[00:26:36] That takes a lot of my admin time to be honest. My practice doesn't, it's kind of a well oiled machine at this point thanks to your guidance and Amber Lida and, you know, others in the community and, because of that, I can't work from. Noon
[00:26:55] to midnight with like a couple of gaps. That's that overworking that you were talking about that instead, yes, I can be up until midnight, but I want to be reading or watching a movie or taking a walk with friends or journaling, because that's the capacity my brain has.
[00:27:13] And, and I really encourage anyone who, who is in this place of like, Oh, no big deal. I can see a client at, midnight my time, whatever your time happens to be, really ask yourself, how, how sustainable is that? Because I really did recognize that
[00:27:31] I wasn't giving my, that one client the best I could give, which is why we started to shift some things around and got some people moved so that I could really give my clients the best experience that they could have and not just let time zones.
[00:27:47] And impact
[00:27:47] their therapy.
[00:27:49] Kym: Yeah. so important to think about. Now, I think people might be interested in this part too, like, so your boyfriend decides, okay, y'all had this conversation. So What does he do? I mean, like, what is his job? Does he have like a corporate job? Does he have to do nine to five back and like, The central time zone or wherever he was from, you know, like and then how do you guys navigate like in your apartment? Is there room for you to both be working at the same time?
[00:28:19] Because I know ken and I like he's got a thing later today He's got to do online and i'm like i've got something too. I'm gonna go out on the porch like How how's that whole thing go now that he's moved over there and he's got a different time zone and all of
[00:28:33] that
[00:28:33] Maggie: he was doing some freelance before he moved over. So, he had started working towards being able to work over here. About five, to six months before he actually moved over. So he left his corporate job and went freelance because that was a little bit easier in terms of the visa process. Just from a, from Portugal's tax point of view, you don't want to be a W 2.
[00:29:00] You want to be a 1099. Just kind of keep that in mind if you're interested in Portugal or anywhere. If you want to not just your immigration requirements, but also your tax implications in each place. And then, so he, he does a lot of computer work. He doesn't have in person meetings. He doesn't have phone calls.
[00:29:17] He does a lot for my business as well. He has a business background. He, so he has transitioned to. Working as like my business manager and does a lot in that respect. So he doesn't have to worry about conflicting times with like a meeting at the same time. And we are in a one bedroom, so we are able to have like I work from my
[00:29:41] Kym: Yeah.
[00:29:42] Maggie: and he is in the living room and there's a couple of doors between us and You know, those kinds of things.
[00:29:48] So it's, we're able to maintain that bit of separation. I do know people who live in, in places here that are a little bit smaller. We're in about 70 square meters and some people are living in like 50 square meters. And so they struggle a little bit just because they're hitting elbows and things like that with their partners.
[00:30:07] But we've gotten lucky because we're in a a kind of a, we're stacked on top of each other.
[00:30:12] So he's, He's downstairs and I'm
[00:30:14] Kym: Nice. oh my God. We would kill each other. I was gonna say every Airbnb we rent is at least two bedrooms,
[00:30:21] two bathrooms because it's just doesn't work.
[00:30:24] Maggie: Oh man, I miss two bathrooms. I so miss two bathrooms. Like, it is, and, and it's, he's gotten really good because he understands the life of like, cause in my coaching, I run the same schedule, so it's a 50 minute unless I'm working with couples, and then it's 90, or 80 minutes, so
[00:30:45] he's gotten used to like, you know, when he takes a shower, it's in the middle of an hour instead of, because he knows I've got 10 minutes to go to the restroom, get some water, refill my tea whatever I need to do, and so he's just not, he's not there.
[00:31:02] It's, it's taken, I think, Genuine respect and understanding of what his job is and and what he does and then what I do and, and how they are, they're equally important, but they are very different. And so mine can feel as if it's more pressing because I have to be in this chair in front of this camera,
[00:31:25] you know.
[00:31:27] on the hour
[00:31:28] that I'm working.
[00:31:30] Kym: totally get that. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's an interesting process trying to navigate. It really
[00:31:35] is. That's cool. we thought about Ken, like trying to manage some
[00:31:38] of my business and I was like, no, I think we'd
[00:31:40] probably kill each other. So I respect you too for being able
[00:31:45] Maggie: It's, it's helpful because so he's, he's been in business and he's worked in healthcare and for his entire career. So he has that mindset. One of the great things that I have found, and I think this is true of every person who I've met who's left the States and lives somewhere else is the flexibility that it takes to adjust to a new way of living.
[00:32:12] So not even just like him working and doing the business management and kind of,
[00:32:18] He's not virtual, so he's not a VA, but he's, you know, doing, doing all of that kind of stuff. It's, it's the creativity that we've got to get into and I think so many people are, I've had so many people reach out to me and say, In the last 18 months, how did you move to Portugal?
[00:32:34] How did you make that happen? That sounds amazing. And what I continue to hear is, is people are really thinking that once they get that visa and their passport or they get their residency card, that everything's kind of like smooth sailing.
[00:32:49] And I just also, I ask people like, is your life in the States smooth sailing?
[00:32:53] Kym: Yeah. Good
[00:32:55] Maggie: No, like you have to go to the DMV. Do you want to go to the DMV? No, I don't either. Not in Portugal. You know, like I don't want to, do you want to deal with the IRS? No, I don't want to deal with the IRS in either country, but I have to, you know, do you, for those that have cars here, like getting, car insurance, like you still have to do those things.
[00:33:15] I rent here. So I still have you know, conversations with the landlord. If this is going on or this is going on, people who have bought, they've had to deal with, Oh, wow, this house is a hundred years old. So we've got to renovate this and renovate that. It's the same. I don't want to say living in Europe is the same as the States, because in my personal opinion, it's way better, but there are There are things where we, I think we over romanticize
[00:33:40] Kym: Mm hmm. Mm
[00:33:43] Maggie: what I find that, and I've talked with people about the success rates of people who move abroad for things other than business, like they're, they're really immigrating to a new country and they go through the process of the visa and blah, blah, blah.
[00:33:56] The success rate is not super, super high. And a lot of it is, you know, There's this just comparison to the home country, whatever that home country is, of it's not like the U. S. It's not like the U. S. or it's
[00:34:08] not like Australia or it's not like, England or something like that. And of course not.
[00:34:14] That's why we're here.
[00:34:14] Kym: Right. the
[00:34:16] Maggie: are these differences. Yeah, there are these differences. Are there pieces of the U. S. that I really miss and that I would love to see implemented here in Portugal? Absolutely. Absolutely. But I knew that those were things that, that I was giving up and the pros outweighed the cons and keeping, keeping in mind that I was frustrated with general bureaucracy and the way that people, you know, the way that were the world worked in the States.
[00:34:42] And sometimes I get that way in Portugal too. And it's not, it's not unique to being an immigrant. It's not unique to you know, living abroad. It's just kind of life stuff where you're like. Man, rent keeps going up, or, oh man, I'm stuck in traffic, or, oh man, I,
[00:35:00] you know, I can't get reservations at my favorite restaurant, or,
[00:35:03] you know, these kind of
[00:35:04] first
[00:35:04] world problems.
[00:35:05] Kym: hmm. Yeah. Oh my gosh, so many good like points that you're making here It you know I think it I think it would help people to hear the other side of it because even your first episode around moving It sounded really frustrating but so
[00:35:18] exciting too. Like like you said like i've got everything in place It's good.
[00:35:22] I'm good to go. But then like actually yeah, it's not as romanticized as you think it is It's still real life. You still have to be an adult. You still have to work. You still have to figure out all that stuff
[00:35:32] Maggie: Yeah,
[00:35:33] Yeah. Yeah. And. I, I absolutely love it here. Like I have, it is, we're recording on a Wednesday. I do have my late night clients this evening, but I also was in bed until like 10 30 this morning. And yes, I could have done that in the States and there, I don't know. It's easier to give myself permission to be living slower, being less productive.
[00:35:58] I, I'm not great at hustle culture. I get very anxious about it. I
[00:36:02] mean, No, let me say it this way. I'm great at falling into hustle culture, and I'm not great at living in it.
[00:36:13] I don't do well in the pool of the hustle. I need to be, you know, further, further out in the calm, calm land. And this country really, really helps.
[00:36:23] And meeting other people from other countries One of the, the great things is while I don't one of the great things about being here is I now have this group of friends from all over the world that I hang out with on a regular basis. When I was in the States, I had a few friends that were living in other parts of the country or the world, but they were all from the US.
[00:36:44] So hearing about what it's like for my friends who are from Austria and Italy and Australia and India and England and France and the Netherlands and Sweden. These were just people that were at Thing at Friendsgiving like
[00:37:00] Kym: Yeah.
[00:37:01] Maggie: it opens up all of going back to that creativity of like, oh, this is what life could look like Oh, there's another example Maybe I like what you're doing or maybe I like what you're doing instead of this like especially for therapists I don't know if you ever fell into this Kim at any point of like this is the path you go to undergrad graduate school work, you know work unpaid for your internship and you know then you just either are in a group or a hospital or maybe you get a private practice if if somebody doesn't talk you out of it and and then you just do that until you retire and and here I'm learning about so many different ways of What your life can look like?
[00:37:47] And that I find inspiring that I love that keeps me motivated and going
[00:37:53] Kym: love that
[00:37:53] so much. Oh my gosh. I feel like I could talk to you like for four hours. We're
[00:37:57] almost out of time.
[00:37:58] Maggie: know. I know. We should. just do this
[00:38:00] Kym: We should. Once a week with Kim and Maggie. Yeah.
[00:38:04] Well, you have a podcast too.
[00:38:06] For those of you that are child free, unapologetically child
[00:38:09] free. She has a podcast around that too.
[00:38:11] So, So, how do people work with you, talk to you, learn more about what you do?
[00:38:17] Tell them all the places.
[00:38:18] Maggie: The easiest place to find me if you want to hang out with me in, well, I should say this. The best place to find me is Instagram. So you can find me at childfree underscore communities, and that is going to be all things relationship coaching for the childfree. Also our free meetups that happen throughout the world.
[00:38:41] I've got a couple of chapters in, The U S and in London here in Lisbon. And then we also have our paid vacations and our virtual meetups and all of those kinds of things. So just find me on Instagram and then all the links will be there. It's the easiest thing. If Instagram isn't your thing, you can always go to
[00:38:59] unapologetically
[00:38:59] childfree.
[00:39:01] com
[00:39:02] slash Bali
[00:39:03] and just learn about it.
[00:39:04] Um, and that
[00:39:05] navigate around the website.
[00:39:07] Kym: Well,
[00:39:07] thanks so much for being here. I
[00:39:08] really appreciate it.