116. Psychedelics, Coaching, and International Moves: A Therapist's Daring Adventure! with Dr. Elizabeth Shuler

116. Psychedelics, Coaching, and International Moves: A Therapist's Daring Adventure! with Dr. Elizabeth Shuler

Dr. Liz Shuler's journey as a traveling therapist began when her husband received a job offer overseas, leading them to live in countries like Jordan and China before settling in Belgium for his studies. Liz's path in mental health counseling, international school counseling, and eventually opening her own practice in Belgium illustrates the flexibility and adaptability required in her field. Her experience showcases the importance of navigating legal and regulatory landscapes in different countries, highlighting how laws vary significantly from one place to another and the necessity for therapists to adapt to these differences while maintaining their practice.

In Belgium, Liz encountered a complex bureaucratic system that challenged her professional credentials and required her to navigate through extensive paperwork to continue her practice legally. Her determination led her to find a loophole that allowed her to practice as a psychotherapist due to her experience before 2016. Liz's story is not just about the challenges of international practice but also about the opportunities it presents, such as her involvement in psychedelic integration coaching and her use of platforms like Insight Timer to reach a broader audience. This tale is a testament to the innovative approaches therapists can take to adapt their practices to new environments while exploring unique specializations.

Episode Key Points:

  • Dr. Liz Shuler adapted her therapy practice across different countries, navigating legal and regulatory challenges.
  • In Belgium, Liz found a legal provision that recognized her previous experience, allowing her to continue practicing as a psychotherapist.
  • Liz leverages online platforms for broader outreach, engaging in psychedelic integration coaching and sharing resources on Insight Timer.

About Dr. Elizabeth Shuler: 

Dr. Elizabeth Shuler have been at the bottom. She knows what it is like to feel worthless and hopeless. She also know that, like her, you have everything you need inside you to find hope and crawl out of the darkness. It just takes a little help. 

Since 2015, Dr. Liz have lived abroad, starting in Jordan, moving to China, and finally ending up in Belgium. As an international school counselor by day, she worked with international students, parents, and professionals dealing with transition, culture shock, and burnout on top of all of the other life stressors that come along. As a coach and therapist by night, Dr. Liz saw many international professionals who didn't feel like enough, thought they were too sensitive, or who wanted to find personal and professional fulfillment. Now, she is a psychotherapist, coach, and yoga therapist living and working in Belgium.

Dr. Liz completed a Master's of Science in Mental Health Counseling in 2014, Yoga Teacher certification & Reiki Master certification in 2015, and PsyD & Yoga Therapy certification in 2023.

Connect with Dr. Liz:

Counseling Website: www.innerevolutioncounseling.com

Coaching Website: www.innerevolutioncoach.com

Free Meditations: https://insig.ht/tpV4SbMvaGb

Blog: https://innerevolution.substack.com/

Connect with me:

Instagram: @thetravelingtherapist_kym

The Traveling Therapist Membership:

https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/travelingtherapistmembership

Revolutionize Your Private Practice with AI Course:

https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/ai

Signup to learn more about life as Traveling Therapist:

https://landing.mailerlite.com/webforms/landing/l2v7c3

The Traveling Therapist Facebook Group: 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/

Bill Like A Boss Insurance Billing Community:

https://kymtolson.kartra.com/page/blab

Subscribe to the Podcast:

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TRANSCRIPT:

@0:02 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

this meeting is being recorded this is my note-taker recording this isn't the episode recording just so you know all right no problem yeah I like to just say hi and just talk to you little bit before we get started but thanks for being here yeah no problem thanks for inviting me yeah I need to move this video around a little bit okay do it right it's it's been a crazy month for me but it's good so where are you I was reading your notes real quick before this it says you're out of the country but I wasn't sure where you are actually currently I'm in Belgium oh my gosh that's awesome yeah we just moved well we've been here like nine months we moved in June of 2023 oh wow okay yeah so are you you just move around to places or is there reason like you go to these different places is it yeah we

first moved to Jordan for my partner's job.

@1:04 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay, I started working as an international school counselor. And then we moved to China for my job.

@1:11 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay, oh my gosh.

@1:13 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, and then we moved to Belgium because he wanted to go back to school. And so it's like we switch off.

@1:18 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

That's so cool, though. Yeah, how interesting. Yeah, is he American or is he from somewhere else?

@1:25 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, we're both from Wyoming actually.

@1:27 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, wow.

@1:27 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay.

@1:28 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

I love that story. Um, okay, so it's just super casual. Like I never really have a game plan. just like to kind of chit chat really just whatever comes up.

Is there anything you don't want to talk about or is it all pretty open?

@1:44 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay, no, I'm an open book.

@1:46 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay, and I saw that you've got stuff on insight timer.

@1:49 - Dr. Liz Shuler

That's so I can record them and they're free, but I also get a little bit for

@2:00 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

each play. so it's, you know, a give and take, which I think is great. That's really cool. Yeah, I've got, um, I have hypnosis sessions on Etsy and I used to have hypnosis apps on the, in the app stores.

Um, but they recently got taken down because the, the code was so old and I couldn't find anybody to update it.

It's a long story, but anyway, yeah. But so it's just neat to see somebody else doing that. thought that was really cool.

like, well, what's that insight timer? That's awesome. That's like a really cool platform. Um, okay. So is there anything you want to talk about or promote or anything like that while we're, or you just want to share your story?

@2:37 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, no, I just, I, on the Facebook group, I know a lot of people were interested in how I was able to legally practice here in Belgium and it's kind of a convoluted story.

@2:47 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

yeah, that'd be great to talk about. That'd be really cool. Okay. All right. Well, um, I'll hit record, but everything is just editable.

We can totally pause or anything. Let me take out and just tell me. and all that good stuff. Okay, but it's just super laid back.

All right, let's see, and I'm in this weird like Airbnb. I've got kind of microphone just sitting here, so if I knock anything over there with me.

All right, so let's see, let me hit record. I'm just gonna do a little intro, and then I always say, how'd you go from being a traditional therapist to traveling therapist, then we're just gonna kick it off from there.

Okay, all right, let me make sure I hit record. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist podcast.

I have a really cool guest here today. I'm really excited to share her story. know it's gonna help a lot of people get inspired and, you know, move to different places and learn how to navigate that, so I'd now I'm gonna say your name wrong too.

I should ask you before you. Dr. Schuller is here with us. Is that right? So Liz, thanks for being here.

I love you. of you would love if you'd open up and just tell us like how did you go from being a traditional therapist to a traveling therapist?

@4:06 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Right. So I got my master's degree in mental health counseling in 2014 and about year after that I want to say yeah because it was a late 2015 my husband got a job offer overseas.

Wow yeah and it was kind of a weird it's a weird thing we moved to Jordan which is in the Middle East and he's a brewer so he was brewing beer in the Middle East yeah it was kind of crazy thing oh my gosh that was the job to go brew beer in the Middle East oh that's amazing yeah and so it was something we couldn't pass up and it was kind of a quick thing so from the time he accepted the job offer two months later we were in Jordan and gosh yeah yeah so I was still actually accruing my hours for full licensure and I needed to find something

that wasn't private practice because that's what I was doing back in Wyoming. I was doing private practice to accrue my hours and I found an international counseling community.

So there's in a lot of international hubs, they have like peer consultation groups and things that kind of pop up and it's really awesome and they helped me find a job opening at towards your hours.

Yep, it sure did.

@5:32 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my gosh. Wow.

@5:34 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, everything worked out amazingly. I also in that group found a supervisor who was from Wyoming.

@5:41 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my gosh.

@5:43 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, so a lot of coincidences.

@5:46 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yes, that is amazing.

@5:49 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Right, so then we were there for about four and a half years and decided we wanted to go a little bit further east.

So we decided we were going to move to China. don't Um, I, we moved for my job there and then, of course, COVID happened.

@6:05 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@6:06 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Oh my goodness. We moved in August of 2019. we were basically in China for the whole lockdown, for the whole border closing, the border opened up about six months before we left, actually.

@6:20 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my goodness. And when was that?

@6:22 - Dr. Liz Shuler

long were you on lockdown with that? Yeah. So not until December 2022, did the border reopen?

@6:27 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Was that scary? mean, just being in another country, or was it just kind of like whatever, we're just dealing with it.

@6:35 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. Yeah. I think it was the hardest part was not being able to come home and like see family, because if you left the country, you couldn't come back in.

was, it was very, very difficult. Yeah. But otherwise it was fine. I mean, there were some crazy things that went on, but nothing super crazy.

@6:54 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my gosh. I feel like I could just talk to you about that for a whole hour.

@6:58 - Dr. Liz Shuler

But gosh.

@7:00 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

I don't know why, it just makes me feel so anxious thinking about being locked down in China. Like you said, being able to come back and see your family or come back to China if you left.

guess. you got a job there and your stuff is there, like everything. Yeah. So, so you go ahead. I was just going say, so you transferred to China because of the job of the international school.

Is that how you got to China?

@7:22 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. Yep. Yeah. So we wanted to do something a little bit different, move out of Jordan and we, I got a job in China.

We were looking in sort of East Asia. Okay. And during this whole time, I kind of had a small private practice on the side where I was seeing expats because it's really difficult in especially the Middle East and the Far East to find English speaking therapists for expats.

So I was doing a little bit of that on the side and also doing a little bit of coaching for like professionals who are expats and things.

And we ended up moving to Belgium in June of 2023 for my partner to go back to school. And here I am.

I've opened my own practice. I'm doing coaching because I'm doing psychedelic integration coaching here.

@8:16 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

And then I'm also doing therapy. That is so cool. So many questions.

@8:22 - Dr. Liz Shuler

All right.

@8:23 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

I'm ready. That's just amazing. Okay. So all right. So in China, you were just still doing your practice. So were there any regulations in China that said you weren't allowed to practice there back in Wyoming and your home state?

Was there anything like that that you had to navigate?

@8:40 - Dr. Liz Shuler

I know people ask about China all the time. Right. So it's there are a lot of mental health laws in China, but they don't really pertain to expats.

So China is very much not set up for foreigners for foreigners for tourism for foreigners who are working there, it's all about local Chinese people, which is great, because it also means that if you set up a private practice back in the States, so basically you're paying taxes in the States and you're only seeing expats, so you're not seeing local citizens, you're basically free to practice whatever.

@9:21 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay, okay, so that wasn't a problem at all then.

@9:24 - Dr. Liz Shuler

And the same is true in Jordan, a lot of the Middle Eastern countries, they don't really want to regulate foreigners, so an American, helping an American with therapy, they're not going to get involved with that, right?

@9:42 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, okay, so it's generally pretty okay, because really we get that question all the time.

@9:49 - Dr. Liz Shuler

It's like how do I even find out if it's okay, and that's a hard part too, lot of times, just trying to figure it out, right, okay, I believe because I was a school counselor.

I had a lot of access to all of the mental health laws on things like that, so I was able to do a whole bunch of research, talk to people in, you know, legally in the local community, and figure those things out.

Again, it's kind of a gray area because, yeah, there aren't laws for foreigners, really. All of the mental health laws in places like Jordan and China are about locals, people who live there, people who went to school there.

If you're a foreigner, you are mostly beholden to the rules of wherever you're from.

@10:31 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Gotcha, right, right, yeah, good distinction. So with the international school, I guess you're working in China, you're being paid to work in China.

How do you manage taxes with that, because we get that question a lot too, like if I'm working for a company in another country, like how do I deal with that part?

@10:50 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Right. So in most international schools, they will pay your local taxes for you, and you have to file, continue to file.

all U.S. taxes if you're an American citizen, just because it doesn't matter as long as you're an American citizen, you're filing taxes back in the states.

@11:07 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Yeah, that's good to know. Yeah, because I didn't know. Do you have to pay over there, too?

@11:11 - Dr. Liz Shuler

If you're like, it's actually working there and helping the people there. Yeah. Yeah, that's really, yeah. You do pay local taxes, but again, a lot of the schools basically reimburse you for that.

@11:21 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay, interesting. Okay, so then, and you were also into coaching too. So I'm just curious, like, how did you get into the expat coaching?

Were you just sitting in Jordan? You were like, oh my gosh, I'm out to lunch with these expats that I could tell they need help.

how did you figure that part out?

@11:36 - Dr. Liz Shuler

No, I actually, I had a client back when I was in Wyoming, who I was doing professional coaching with, because they didn't need therapy.

And I'm also a yoga teacher. So we were also doing, he was coming to my yoga classes and we were doing those sorts of things.

And so it just kind of grew from there. It's also interesting, because that's kind of, where I got into the psychedelic integration stuff.

a lot of my clients were coming to me saying, know, I've done, you know, psychedelics for recreation or at festivals or whatever.

Now I want to try and do it to kind of for personal development or professional growth or things like that.

And so that's kind of where that started.

@12:19 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, that is so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so you moved to Belgium because the husband wants to go to school there, right?

Okay. so how's that going now that you're in Belgium? Same idea that you're paying just paying taxes back in the United States.

You're seeing clients back in the United States. Expats? No, she's like, nope.

@12:40 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So what's biggest difference?

@12:42 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Tell us everything.

@12:45 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. So the EU is a very interesting thing because you are allowed to work you know, if you're a European citizen, you're allowed to work in different countries.

But each country, like in the US, each country has its own mental health laws that you have. have to abide by.

@13:02 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So, okay, for example, if you're a Belgian citizen and you are a licensed psychologist here and you move to Germany, you have to get a license in Germany.

Well, even if it's just practicing the people back in the States or, okay, oh, yes.

@13:18 - Dr. Liz Shuler

it's also opposite from the States in that it's you need to be licensed where you live. Ah, that's really So I can work with clients all over Europe and they don't care as long as I am in Belgium.

@13:35 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Wow, yeah, that is so interesting. Okay, so what did you have to do to get, I guess, is it called license?

Does it, I guess, is it what they call it, in Belgium?

@13:45 - Dr. Liz Shuler

It's, um, so my case is a little bit different and it's going to probably be different for a lot of people who got their masters in like social worker counseling in the US because most of Europe will not

say that you have a bachelor of master's degree unless you have done a master's thesis that has original research and statistical analysis.

@14:10 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my God, something I definitely did not do in my master's program.

@14:17 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So it has to be either a correlational research project or it has to be like a quasi-experimental or an experimental research thesis.

@14:25 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

my goodness. Okay. you didn't do that. So how did you navigate that?

@14:31 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So I started because I didn't know that when we first started this whole move and everything. So in June of 2022, we knew that we were going to be moving in 2020.

So I like, okay, going to start the process. So I was looking into, Belgium is also a little bit weird because there are three regional governments.

And so depending on where you're going to live, those are the people that you have to look for degree equivalency for.

So, applied for degree equivalency and Flanders, and it took them until June of 2023 to get back to me.

@15:09 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Whoa!

@15:10 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Really?

@15:11 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yes.

@15:12 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yes, it is.

@15:13 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my gosh.

@15:14 - Dr. Liz Shuler

bureaucracy here takes so long and it is so crazy. So, you really have to plan ahead, and it's easier to do actually if you're already in the country because they get really figured about residency.

And basically, when they got back to me, they were like, you don't have a master's degree in Belgium.

@15:35 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

You're like, yes, I do.

@15:39 - Dr. Liz Shuler

And with all nothing in like the requirements that anything about a thesis, right, it asked for your thesis, but it didn't say that you had to have one for equivalency.

So just so that everybody knows, you're going to have to have them.

@15:53 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Wow. That's so interesting.

@15:55 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Oh my gosh.

@15:56 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@15:57 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So what did I go through? Yeah. got rejected. And they basically told me I only have a bachelor's and I was like, that is I have I went back and got my doctorate.

@16:07 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So like, no, that's not how dare you.

@16:12 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So I just focused for a while on, you know, starting my coaching business and getting that through.

@16:17 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. That's what I going to ask because it was what did you say December 2022 when you got to Belgium and then like you had to wait till June.

Yeah, we got here in June. So it was a little I think got here. Okay. So you had already submitted before you even came to Belgium.

Okay. Well, that was smart.

@16:34 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah.

@16:35 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. That worked out.

@16:37 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah.

@16:38 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Sorry. I interrupted you. So you said that you were just like focusing on building the coaching business instead.

@16:43 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. And to do that as a foreigner, you have to apply for what's called a professional card to be self-employed.

Okay. Right. I focused on that got that all figured out by October.

@16:58 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So it took me from June to October. just to be able to start working. Mm-hmm.

@17:03 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Oh my gosh. Yup, as a self-employed person. Now, if you come and you're employed somewhere, that's different. If you're employed somewhere, you can then work on a side business without any of that on your work visa, but that's not how we came.

@17:17 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So visa is there. right. And most of us, right, are pretty much self-employed.

@17:22 - Dr. Liz Shuler

think most people that listen and, know, working through a private practice or something like that, yeah. Right. Right. And a lot of the therapy jobs here are contract work.

So you're going to have to get your professional card here. So I worked on that and I started building that up a little bit and was like just furiously researching, right, through this whole time because there has to be some sort of lethal.

And when you come to Belgium, a lot of people will tell you, everybody is really, really strict about following the law, but they're also really good about finding ways around the law.

it's kind of like a national pastime here.

@18:03 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay.

@18:04 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So I was just doing a whole bunch of research and I came across a law that said basically if you had been practicing as a psychotherapist before 2016, you could continue to practice even though you're not Oh really?

Yeah.

@18:23 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Well, that's helpful.

@18:25 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. And so just to be sure, I ended up emailing like the federal health service and they got me in touch with the federal counsel for mental health care professionals and it was kind of a back and forth for a while.

I sent them my degrees. You know, I sent them proof that I was practicing before 2016 and it wasn't until, oh gosh, the end of February, actually, when they got back to me and said, yeah, practice as a psychotherapist, you can't call yourself a psychologist, which is what everybody here is.

@19:00 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

everybody's a clinical psychologist.

@19:01 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Wow. But you can call yourself a psychotherapist.

@19:06 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Oh my goodness.

@19:09 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah.

@19:11 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So what was the process for the, would you call it the personal card?

@19:15 - Dr. Liz Shuler

professional card.

@19:16 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

The professional card, yeah.

@19:18 - Dr. Liz Shuler

what was that process like? Yeah, that's involved as well. So it, you have to have a business plan, you have to have a financial projection for five years and they send you a template.

But they send you a template that's in Excel and in either Dutch or Yeah. Yep. And it's very, very, like I had to have an account and do it for me.

Okay.

@20:00 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

beyond what I know about financial stuff. And then you have to write like a cover letter. You have to have references.

@20:10 - Dr. Liz Shuler

It was just a whole packet of things that you have to put together.

@20:15 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Goodness.

@20:16 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, wow. Were you ever just like, forget this? I was like, yes, your husband really wanted to go to school there, so you kind of had to.

Right. Well, there are a lot of people who just say, screw this, I'm not doing this.

@20:31 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

then basically end up opening a business back like wherever they're from in the US, right?

@20:38 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Opening a business there and then doing all their business through that. Our goal is to have citizenship here eventually.

So I didn't go that way. I see. I gotcha. Yeah, I was going to ask, is this like temporary?

Because it's a lot to go through. It's temporary. Yeah.

@20:54 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So there is, there is a way that you can, and Belgium is actually pretty okay with this, that you can have a business for a business entity and be here not, you know, you're not working in Belgium.

@21:12 - Dr. Liz Shuler

You're technically working from the States or whatever it is.

@21:15 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

That's where you guys say. Okay, so if you, if you had a private practice, like an LLC or something and then registered it as a foreign entity, I guess, is that how that works?

@21:09 - Dr. Liz Shuler

then basically they be registered in the U.S. and you would just not say anything to anybody.

@21:16 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay.

@21:18 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. And as long as you're, know, on a temporary residence permit, so for example, my husband's a student, I'm not technically allowed to work unless I get a professional car.

@21:31 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, yeah.

@21:32 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So if we were going to leave after his degree, nobody would care really.

@21:39 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, right. If it was just, if you were just there temporarily doing your private practice back home and then when he finishes up, y'all are out of there, they're like, whatever, okay.

So interesting. But, but y'all decided to stay there. Is that like, you just love it there or is whatever he's doing in school, like, like I'm just curious about like wanting to stay because

You know, as a digital nomad now for like two years, I can't even imagine settling down anywhere. You know, it's kind of weird things like, well, I ever settled down again, but I just love stories like this.

It's like, did you find this country and you're like in love with it?

@22:13 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Or is there another reason? So first of all, my husband has family here. So that's one reason that we would like to have citizenship here, but our plan is to get citizenship in an EU country so that then we can move around with the EU.

Instead of having to worry about that, um, shin again thing, right? Where you have to, for those listening, it's 90 days in 180 days out of the EU, basically, right?

@22:41 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Because we're trying to plan 90 days in Europe, you know, like, how can we see everything in 90 days and then get back out for, and you have to literally be out for 180 days.

@22:51 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. So if we have citizenship here, we have freedom of movement and we can work wherever we want to in the EU.

And we can stay, you know, we could go to Italy and stay for five years if we wanted to, or, you know, move around.

So it just gives us a lot more freedom in the European economic zone.

@23:11 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Now, is citizenship easier because your husband has family there already? like I hear about these, like, ancestral. Citizen ships, I guess, I can't even think of their dual citizenship because, like, heritage-wise, you've got family from there.

Is that, I'm just curious, like, does that help or no?

@23:32 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Not in Belgium. In some European countries, that's true. So for, like, Italy, I'm pretty sure that's true. In Germany, I'm, they might have repealed that, but it used to be true.

Okay. But Belgium, the thing about Belgium is it's hard to get here.

@23:47 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay.

@23:48 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. Stay here.

@23:50 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Gotcha. Yeah.

@23:52 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So the citizenship requirements are basically that you've stayed here legally five years. Okay. and, you know, taken from social services or whatever, you've been able to support yourself.

And you have an A2 level of either Dutch or French, which is a very low bar.

@24:11 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

That's like elementary level. Yeah. Okay. Oh, good.

@24:16 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah.

@24:16 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

makes it little easier. Interesting. Okay. So did you have to learn French? I guess as a French, you're more proficient in or as a Dutch.

@24:25 - Dr. Liz Shuler

yeah, I've never taken French.

@24:26 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

We're in Flanders.

@24:28 - Dr. Liz Shuler

We're in the Dutch part. okay. Actually right now preparing for the A2 test for Dutch. Oh my goodness. How's that going?

If you're an English speaker, it's actually not very hard. Oh, wow. Yeah. There are going to be some like sounds that are a little bit difficult to make with your throat and things like that.

But living in Jordan, we learned a little bit of Arabic. so some of the sounds are similar. So a little bit easier.

@24:57 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, that's so cool.

@24:59 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. Oh my goodness.

@25:00 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah. But they're

@25:00 - Dr. Liz Shuler

a lot of words that are very, very similar and that like are there. Yeah, if you read something in Dutch, you can pick out one of every 10 words probably.

@25:07 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, so you could probably just figure out what it's saying anyway. I'm gonna have to try to try that later just to see how it goes.

Yeah, that's really cool. So, okay, so right now, your husband's in school, so does he have to worry about like citizenship or any of that stuff, right?

@25:26 - Dr. Liz Shuler

He doesn't need to worry about that yet until y'all decide to live there, but I guess you're both working towards that anyway, the citizenship piece or is it like you get citizenship and then he's just kind of grandfathered in anyway, because you guys are married.

Look at how that work? No, we'll both have to apply for citizenship separately.

@25:41 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay, no. Okay, yeah. Oh my gosh, wow. So just as far as your business goes right now, so how do you have that structure?

what are you doing? Like private practicing coaching? Are you still connected to the international school stuff at all? Just curious how that

@26:00 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, so I have some connections in international schools, but a lot of the time they're looking for more local resources.

If, you know, a family member or somebody can't find something in the local area, that's when some of my contacts might contact me for that.

But what I'm doing for therapy here is mostly EAP work.

@26:23 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Or some local in the States.

@26:25 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Oh, for local EAP. Yeah.

@26:28 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, interesting. So how did you get connected to that?

@26:31 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Again, it's just a lot of research. So looking at LinkedIn profiles and doing, you know, a lot of Google searches about employees, this is programs in Belgium or in Europe.

And then just sending out a resume and a cover letter and seeing if anybody wants to hire me.

@26:51 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

That's amazing. Yeah. Okay. So EAP in Belgium, is it kind of like the same as in the United States?

like a benefit of a health care plan or of a company?

@27:02 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. Yeah, so it's a company in Europe. It's mostly companies who buy the employee assistance program for their employees.

Yep. Okay. It's the same. It's sort of the same thing. You have, you know, eight to 12 sessions or whatever your employer has bought for you, and then you go through your counselor there.

@27:21 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. How does that pay?

@27:23 - Dr. Liz Shuler

I don't know if you want to get to that. Does it pay? Okay.

@27:25 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

No, it's fine. EAPs in the US are like not that great a lot of times. mean, several of them are, but some of them pay really terribly.

So I'm just curious like yeah.

@27:34 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So when you come to Europe, expectations for Americans need to be very, very lowered.

@27:41 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Okay. Yeah.

@27:43 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So in the US, income is really high, but wealth inequality is really high, right? In Europe, wealth inequality is creeping up, but not nearly as bad as in the US, and medical prices, prices, you know, salad.

Or is it recorded?

@28:16 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, wow. Yeah. goodness. Yeah. That's enough to like live on and feel comfortable.

@28:24 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yep.

@28:25 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Over in Belgium. OK.

@28:27 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Interesting. It's OK. So when you look at prices for therapy, it's usually between 60 and 80 euro an hour.

@28:37 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

OK. Interesting. Like about half what most therapists report getting. Yes. 140, I guess, what I hear. 150 is kind of the standard rating here, unless you're like in San Francisco or something.

@28:51 - Dr. Liz Shuler

know.

@28:52 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Right.

@28:52 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. Right.

@28:53 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. OK. So it's interesting. Yeah. Just what? why you prefer to go that route instead of just maybe just like really fostering a big private practice back in the US and just seeing clients remotely.

Is there like a reason you decide that way instead of just doing like the traditional like a lot of you know people I talk to in this podcast all just most have their just private practices and they've managed time zones and that's where they think I'm just curious for you.

Yeah, part of it is because a lot of my coaching clients are going to come from the US.

@29:26 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Okay. Just because of the nature of what I do. Part of it is because I do have to have for my professional card there are renewal requirements and one of those requirements is that I have some Flemish clients.

@29:42 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh interesting. Okay. Yeah.

@29:46 - Dr. Liz Shuler

And part of it is because I'm only licensed in Wyoming back in the States and there are very few people in Wyoming.

@29:53 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense but you're You know going about in a really wise way.

think I mean you make it at work, you know based on what you're trying to do So the psychedelic piece I had a whole episode on that I just kind of so interesting because I don't know a lot about it But are you able to do any psychedelic stuff in Belgium?

Are they? Yeah, that type therapy. Yeah, my whole business plan is based around psychedelic coaching. Oh Interesting, okay, I am not providing the psychedelics.

Yes Okay, so the the person I interviewed before she said back in the u.s Like she has a doctor basically that can prescribe and she Facilitates the doctor administers and she facilitates like the therapeutic part of it.

Is that how that works for you?

@30:46 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, and But because of the legalities and the things, you know around it It's just easier if I'm doing from Belgium and in the u.s And in the EU to do coaching instead of therapy.

So I'm not I'm not taking on anybody who has like a diagnosis or anything like that. I'm mostly doing it for personal professional development and for wellness.

if you feel okay, you still have some stuff, you want to get better, we can do that. Because psychedelic assisted therapy here is still not a thing.

It's not something that is in the professionals like Geist. But in the Netherlands, right next door, you can get truffles, psilocybin truffles.

You can get marijuana, you know, there are a lot of things that you can do. are retreats that happen over there.

So it's kind of like seeping into Belgium a little bit.

@31:42 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@31:43 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah.

@31:44 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

interesting. So did you have to find a doctor in Belgium to help with this or is it a different process?

@31:51 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So because of the way it works in the Netherlands, you basically just order something and have it mailed to you.

@31:57 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Oh my gosh, really? so there's no medical oversight. That's interesting.

@32:03 - Dr. Liz Shuler

So a lot of what I do is my doctoral thesis was on psychedelic assisted therapy and so I like to do a lot of preparation around what substance are you using?

What are going to be the side effects of that? How can we do this safely, right, and making sure that people are not getting in over their heads or doing something unsafe because there's not going to be an oversight for them.

@32:28 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@32:29 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Oh my gosh.

@32:30 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Wow. And you're remote, too, right? it's like, so in my mind, this is how it goes. have no idea.

But they get this mail order thing. Y'all have done some pre-work and then they're like, hey, I'm going to take the mushrooms at one today and we're like, okay, should kick in around two and I'm going to log in and do this with you remotely.

Is that how it works or do?

@32:53 - Dr. Liz Shuler

can't do that. Because if I do that, so if I provide or if I'm there when they are partaking than I am involved in criminal activity.

@33:03 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

No, no, interesting, okay, like I have no clue how it works. That is interesting.

@33:09 - Dr. Liz Shuler

There are people who do that, like it's a very underground thing, but just because you know, I'm foreign here, I'm not a citizen, I'm not a card, I have to be really careful about how I do it.

@33:22 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, oh yeah, I bet, my gosh. So they'll take the psychedelics and then like you'll have a session the next day or something to process what they, I guess they journal or somehow record their thoughts or something.

Okay.

@33:37 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah. And there are a lot of apps now that, you know, are trip apps that if you're having anxiety or something that comes up, they have prompts and things that can help you with that, which is really nice.

It's not, you know, it's not as good as having somebody who knows what's going on sitting with you, but it's better than nothing.

Most of the people that I work with, I make sure. that they at least have somebody who they feel safe with that's there.

@34:03 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, right?

@34:04 - Dr. Liz Shuler

I don't want them doing it all way.

@34:06 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah.

@34:08 - Dr. Liz Shuler

But other than that, yeah, it's preparation and then integration afterwards. And I mean, some people that I work with, like I said, have been doing psychedelics for years at like way use of recreationally.

And now that it's more in this I guys about how it can be helpful, they're like, Oh, maybe I should do it that way instead.

And so they have a lot of experience with it. They don't need all that preparation. They know what it's going to be like.

@34:32 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

And we just do mostly the integration stuff. That is so cool.

@34:37 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, I really enjoy it.

@34:39 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

It's really neat. I don't know. freaks me out a little bit, but only because I probably did some psychedelics in high school or whatever, you know, and I just, I hated it.

So it's so weird, but I know it's so helpful for a lot of people. People love it, you know, and they really transform just through like even one time with it, right?

It's really I

@35:00 - Dr. Liz Shuler

opening for people. Right.

@35:01 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So interesting. I'd love to read your thesis sometime just to see what you found out.

@35:07 - Dr. Liz Shuler

You're used to that as your doctoral thesis. Yeah, I actually have an upon research gate so I can send you the link if you want.

@35:13 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah. we could even put it in the notes and people want to check it out because I'm just so curious about it.

@35:20 - Dr. Liz Shuler

It's really interesting. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And my whole thesis was on how to do what I'm talking about psychedelic assisted therapy online safely and effectively.

@35:29 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

So. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, because it's like, how do you do it remotely? But I hear what you're saying.

You don't do it with them, at least in this situation. know people do it. you said, it's which is interesting too.

It's like, should it be underground? Like maybe it's safer not for it not to be. But anyway, that's a whole other discussion probably.

Wow. And then, I know we're right out of time. But another cool thing I loved in your bio because I'm this entrepreneurial type too.

I saw that you had another little side. I thought so. Would you tell us about that for a second?

@36:03 - Dr. Liz Shuler

You talk about Insight Timer?

@36:04 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, yeah.

@36:05 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, so that's, I found that, oh gosh, like my second year in Jordan, because I was looking for, you know, meditations for the kids to work with and things like that.

And I just really fell in love with it. You I was using it myself for, you know, years and years.

And then I realized that they allow you to be a teacher. So you can do meditations, you can do courses, you can do talks, and you can do, they have a premium version, which you can add stuff to, but most of their stuff is free.

And as a teacher, depending on the number of plays that you have, you still get paid for those free tracks.

It's not a lot, like it's not gonna be your whole living, but it's enough to be able to give back to people and also make sure that you are getting a little bit back for yourself.

@36:54 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

That's so cool. I never even thought about like looking on there to like apply to like put my stuff.

stuff on there. Before we hit record, I was sharing with Liz that, you know, back in 2008, I created one of the first apps in the app stores for hypnosis, mp3 downloads.

It was like, I think it was the second or third in the app store. Now there's a million, of course, like column app and insight timer and all this stuff.

But yeah, I never thought about that, looking into a platform like that where you could just put your recordings and help other people with them.

@37:24 - Dr. Liz Shuler

Yeah, it's really neat. Yeah, it's great. And it's nice to be able to have for clients. don't have to give them like a whole library.

I can just send them a link and be like, this is my stuff. But if you want to use somebody else's stuff, like there's a whole library here for you too.

@37:42 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

I love that. That's so cool. Yeah. Thanks for sharing about that too. Well, thank you so much. If people wanted to reach out to you, get help around like navigate Jordan, China, Where would they find you?

@37:56 - Dr. Liz Shuler

How would they reach out to you? Yeah, you can send me an email. It's e-shula- at innerevolutioncounseling.com or innerevolutioncoach.com, I've got both.

I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn, so Inner Evolution coach at both, and I, you know, anybody who needs help, I'm there.

I'm also on the Facebook group for the Traveling Therapist, so reach out to me there too.

@38:20 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, and we'll put all your links in the show notes so you guys can reach out to our review if you need to or you want to.

Thank you so much.

@38:26 - Dr. Liz Shuler

I really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, it was great. Thank you for talking with me.

@38:30 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

You're welcome. The recording has stopped. you. That was awesome. Yeah, it was so helpful. I think a lot of people are going to get a lot out of that.

It's really interesting how you've just kind of made it work regardless of where you were. So thanks for sharing that.

Yeah. I'm kind of a research nerd, so yeah, I just dive in until I find what I need, you know.

I love it. Yeah, no, it's so good. Just figure it out. All those regulations and stuff, because that's the hardest part for most people.

It's like, how do I figure this stuff out? I'm actually like trying to perfect a course right now, like a step by step.

This is exactly how you find out regardless of country.

@39:11 - Dr. Liz Shuler

And it's just hard to do, you know, I'm just trying to figure that part out. But yeah, and like I said, being a school counselor, I literally did that on the clock while I was paid to do it, right?

So it was easier for me, I think.

@39:26 - Kym Tolson (hypnotransformations@gmail.com)

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And this episode probably come out and let me think one, two, probably like three or four weeks.

I can't remember how many episodes we have before years, but probably three or four weeks. And usually it comes out and then the next week, IVA will email you with like some links and some like a reel and all this stuff if you want to share it on Instagram.

And then we'll we'll also like send you a collaborators link on Instagram. I got to go follow you. I'm not sure if I'm already following you and then you could just.

except the collaborators linking it'll just share your ears too if you want to share it on yours the episode and you know and we'll just send that to you and if there's anything later you decide you want edited or anything just let me know and I'll tell the editor guy we'll get it straight and all that good stuff I think we're good okay well thanks a lot that was super helpful yeah good I'm glad yeah thanks and reach out anytime and thanks for being a member of the traveling therapist and do in this episode of course thank you for having me I had it it was a great conversation yeah thanks a lot well talk to you later okay have fun okay thank

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