113. Finding Love Across Borders: Unraveling the Secrets of International Dating and Emotional Connection with Anna Linde

113. Finding Love Across Borders: Unraveling the Secrets of International Dating and Emotional Connection with Anna Linde

In this episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast, Anna Linde, a seasoned international traveler and a sexologist, delves into the complexities of dating across borders and her profound insights into human sexuality. With a master's degree in sexology from Sweden and certifications as a sex coach and somatic sex educator, Anna's expertise offers a rich exploration of intimacy and relationships. She emphasizes the significance of understanding one's body and the embodiment of emotions like shame, fear, and guilt, which are pivotal in navigating sexual and intimate challenges. Anna's approach to therapy transcends traditional conversations, advocating for a holistic understanding of clients' experiences by connecting their emotional states to physical sensations in their bodies.

Anna's narrative extends beyond her professional endeavors, providing personal anecdotes and practical advice for those navigating the intricacies of international dating and relationships. Highlighting the importance of clarity and communication, she shares her own experience of finding a partner through a dating app designed for nomads, stressing the need to be upfront about one's desires and the lifestyle one wishes to lead. Anna also touches on cultural differences in dating norms and expectations, offering a perspective that challenges listeners to reflect on their own beliefs and desires. Her discussion underscores the dynamic and evolving nature of relationships, encouraging a continuous dialogue about needs, wants, and boundaries, whether in the context of traveling therapists or those living a nomadic lifestyle in pursuit of love and connection.

Key Points:

  • Anna Linde's expertise as a sexologist enriches the understanding of intimacy and relationships, emphasizing the critical role of body awareness and the processing of emotions in therapy.
  • International dating presents unique challenges and learning opportunities, highlighting the importance of clear communication and mutual respect for differing cultural norms and personal desires.
  • Relationships, especially in the context of a nomadic lifestyle, require adaptability and ongoing dialogue, underscoring the importance of aligning on core values and life goals for compatibility and fulfillment.

ABOUT ANNA LINDE:

Swedish-Brazilian sexologist and Dance Movement therapist that loves to break free and outsmart the comfort zone. Traveled through Europe last year (mostly Portugal, Spain and Germany) with her sons, 13 & 10 y and their adopted dog Julia (from Spain). This year, Thailand and Asia, all together on another amazing journey.

Celebrating her finished thesis in sexology where she wrote about International Adoptees Sexual and Reproductive Health and she’s looking forward to new challenges.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. I'm honored today to have our guest back for a second time, Anna Linde. She's fantastic. Last time she was on, we were just talking about all the things, you know, being that she's an international traveler. She has quite the story and there's another episode if you want to go listen and learn more about her. 

In addition to all that, she's a sexologist and also has had quite the experience with trying to date internationally as she's traveling the world. So we thought it'd be really fun to come back and talk about her expertise as a sexologist, but also this experience of this international dating and how you've navigated it and how you made it work and how it hasn't worked.

And, you know, try to help our listeners learn,  learn from you. So welcome. And I'd love it if you could introduce yourself and let everybody know a little bit about you.  But thank you. You're welcome. And I'm happy to be back. Thank you. Um,  yeah, and a short presentation is that I am, uh, a sexologist like you said.

Um, I have a master's in sexology that I took from Sweden.  Uh, I'm a certified sex coach, and I am a sexological bodyworker or somatic sex educator in training. That's amazing.  Yes, it is. I want to hear about all of that.  Yeah, because it's interesting because I thought I wanted to study in the university to be able to do research and, you know, unfold the writing process and all of this.

But since sexology is so much about the body and it's so much about. You know, the blockages we have in our bodies or how other people think of us, then they meet us or who I'm attracted to or not and why and all of these other things. And then the certification as a sex coach, but also somatic sexology made a lot of sense. 

What, what, so could you give us a little breakdown of what that looks like? So is it like, you know, I hear about clients that have maybe. Pelvic floor issues or, you know, something like that that gets in the way of them being able to have sex or, or be intimate with their partners. So what I'm just curious, like, the somatic part of it.

What does that look like when you're working with somebody? Um, it could be because if we, if we work in an ordinary therapy session or coaching session, then the idea is to go from the pain point to something else. So we need to unfold what is the problem in which situations is this problem occurring?

How many years did you have this challenge and what is the goal? Uh, and then we break it down. In smaller challenges or homeworks or exercises or whatever it could be that our model is, is, is giving us or is providing us. Yeah. Um, but if I'm not aware of the body in this process. The embodiment of shame, of fear, of guilt,  um,  it could be grief that is stored in the body. 

Then we're not really helping our clients out to be able to reach their goal or the emotional state they want to be in. Because there are other things in the body blocking even though we talk, maybe as you know, we understand and they say that they understand what they should do and they have been doing it and still we don't get the results that we wish for or that the client wishes for. 

And so to bring in an embodiment  is to always for me or from this perspective is to always make sure that the client is connected with her or his own body in the process.  And so if we are talking about shame, for example, a situation where  the result wasn't was. This client wished for, or wanted, or hoped for, or longed for, or whatever we want to say.

Then it could be a lot of shame around how somebody was acting, or the client itself was acting. Or shame of not being able to make it work. And if it's  a sexual challenge, or if it's intimacy, or if it's a, you know, relationship or whatever it is.  Um, and when we're not processed that shame, when we don't know how to transform it, how to move on, that shame will stay and block us and maybe create even more fear of entering those situations again. 

Um, and if I  Give an advice and I come with a suggestion that,  uh, you know, try this or say this or, or whatever it is, then nothing will be helpful unless we understand if it is shame or grief or, or fear and where it is stuck in the body.  Wow. That's amazing. So when you incorporated that into your training, that sounds like it was just a game changer.

Like it really took everything to the next level. Wow. Yeah. Because then I can actually be in the process in a different way.  So the somatic sexology is so much about being in a somatic mirror. So what you feel in your body, I will feel it as well. And then we can share it, but we are also together. in whatever challenge or pain we are talking about. 

So it's another level of feeling seen and heard. And it's another level for me to understand what we're actually doing.  Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.  Yeah. And then you said, for example, if you have pelvic floor pain, it could be, um, a problem with your erection. It could be a problem with pain around penetrational sex.

It could be so many different things  that are also very connected with shame and fear and usually grief. Because we do need to grieve the thing that we lost to be able to move on.  Um, and if we cannot create a safe space for people to actually feel how they are feeling in their bodies, then we will have trouble  figuring out what the next step should be. 

Right.  Wow. Fascinating. So do you, um, is this all remote? Because I know you're all over the place in different countries. You're in Thailand right now.  Yeah, I do. I should go to Canada for the next step in somatic sex educator training. And we'll see if I can actually make that work practically. I'm Trying to figure it out right now, um, but yeah, and then it's the same because we enter a room where we are supposed to talk about sex or intimacy and specific challenges with people that we maybe don't really know that well at that point. 

And then we have the same experience that it's a little uncomfortable. We, you know, you always feel a little nervous and then It's the same process with the perspective of embodiment that my body actually needs to feel safe enough to be in this room or in this conversation or in this exercise.  So in the training we get the opportunity to practice as we are clients as well in this form. 

Yeah. It's really experiential. I remember when I did the EM, my EMDR training, it was like, Oh my gosh, I'm actually in,  I'm having to meet a clinician for the first time. I'm having to share my stuff and then process it right in front of the clinician. So that was super valuable to be able to do it in person like that, to really understand the experience of the client, but also experience it for myself, how it shifted things for me.

Yes. Yeah. And then the vulnerability in these situations always gets very special. Because if I feel vulnerable, then I can connect with, you know, the other vulnerability in the room.  And then we actually are connected. And then we can start feeling grateful for that safe space or that conversation or that sharing.

Um, so it's an amazing journey. It's amazing studying. It's amazing people. Sexology, sex coaches, somatic sex educators, all of them. It is amazing. So do you have to be, do you have to have training as a therapist before you take this extra training? Somatic sex, sex therapy certification or, or whatever it's called.

Um, do you have to have. Like a, like a master's level training or something. I know you're not from the US. So I'm just curious about the level of training you need to have. Yeah, good. That's a good question. And I don't think I needed to have it like a finished master degree, but they do. They are very.

Um, you know, interested in you're actually the right person to do this because it's a lot of difference from saying I'm interested in sex. It's funny. I like it. Yeah. Or being a person who can actually work with it without being, you know, thrown off what people are telling you or feel the fear in discussing a  tricky topic or maybe only going to your own biases or stereotypes and then you're suddenly judging people  from what they are saying and that's like, that's a no go,  no go zone. 

That's not a very safe environment for a client.  Yeah. Not at all.  Yeah.  Yeah. So I think maybe that's the, the biggest difference for us as sexologists or, you know, or ordinary therapists or coaches, because we have been doing so much reflecting, so much talking, so much reading about the norms, um, which is also a bit connecting to dating internationally because then everybody that is trying to.

To date or create something when we come from different cultures are coming in with very different norms around sexuality, relationships, intimacy, you know, what is femininity or what is, what does it mean to be a man in a relationship? Or, you know, it's a million things that we said,  especially for someone like you that sees clients in different countries.

And you really have to be in tune with that culturally. That's so interesting. So, let's shift into this a little bit since we're kind of touching on it.  Um, let's talk about it. So, are there certain cultures or, or, uh, you know, places you've been or people you've worked with where you've really seen a huge difference in, in the way that people think about their own sexuality.

And I, you know, let's just have a conversation around that. I think that's super interesting, you've seen a lot of different things.  Yes. And what's more interesting is that everybody has the tendency to think that their own perception is normal.  Yes. I bet. Mm hmm. Which makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

Right. And this is where usually couples have a problem figuring out how can we move on or how can we figure this out? Because on one side, one of them is saying, but this is normal for me. I'm not doing that, or that's not for me, or why do you want this, or whatever it could be. And the other person is sitting with the same feelings that, that's, you know, I'm not going there.

This is what I want, or this is how it should be, or I'm not interested in that, or never, or all of these things. Um, and usually what also makes it a little tricky is that we usually Or in general, people are not talking so much about sex and intimacy with their parents, for example.  Which their normal things came from, from the upbringing. 

So we don't usually go backwards and ask our parents like, but, you know, is this normal sexually? Or, because it's a conversation where we usually don't want to talk with our parents about it, uh, which is also connected with is it normal to talk about sex in your family or not?  Yes. Right. And, yeah, so it's an easy spin off in those things of what works or what does not work.

Absolutely. Um, and what we feel is normal is usually making us feel safe. Or feel at home.  Right. Comfortable. Yeah. Safe. Yeah. Even though it's maybe not exactly what I actually want, if I, you know, really try to think about it, but it's, you know, it's how we do it. So, we will go there. Um, so if somebody is suggesting something totally new or, or being in a partnership, not only with one partner, but with.

to others, or maybe that we're three, or we're having an open relationship, then that is a real deal breaker for some people. And for others, it's. That's how we do it. You have two wives. Yeah. You can have three. Why is this? Why is this? Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. Have you worked with that culture? I mean, I know there are places that have multiple wives.

Have you worked with that in your practice? That's really interesting. I did. It's really interesting because sometimes religion plays a part as well. Right. And if religion is a part, then it's usually, you know, this book or this reading or this person that says that it's normal. And this is what it is. It is normal.

This is okay. Um,  but then If you're trying to date somebody that is from a different religion or different culture or different, you know, ideas of what normal is, then that person probably will get really offended of not being the only one or the, you know, not being chosen, not being the one, not being, uh, you know, what all kind of emotions that can, that can be suddenly woken up.

And, and then we're also in the area of jealousy because jealousy is.  Suddenly a thing then, and how do you navigate jealousy with somebody who thinks that  I should be able to have two or three partners? That's not a thing. It's, it's my right.  And then if we turn it, but then if your partner would like to have two or three partners.

Would you feel okay with that? And then, yeah, so it can be really interesting conversations around just what is normal.  So interesting. Yeah, I've had a couple that are polyamorous.  Clients over the years, you know, or I don't know that they had multiple partners and a main partner and then side partners.

And that was definitely a learning experience for me to, uh, try to figure out how to navigate that. And jealousy was a thing that kept coming up, like, how do we, you know, how do we mitigate the jealousy? We want to live this lifestyle. So that was definitely it.  A thing for sure. And that was new for me. So I definitely learned from that client. 

Yeah. And it's, it's an eye opener. Every conversation is an eye opener because I always get a reminder of what I think is normal. Yes. So true. Like, okay, all judgment aside, I'm not these people, if this is what they want to do, good for them, but let's figure out how to.  Make your life the best life you can live with this.

And  also like, what do I actually want? You know, that process of like, do I actually know what I want?  And what I'm longing for, or is my brain also stuck in ideas of what I should date, should do, should, and like, how do you figure that out?  Like, how do you know?  Yeah. How do you know? Maybe you could tell us. 

I will try. Okay. Because I usually ask these questions in the sessions. And share from my perspective as well, that I think when something is yes for me, then I feel it everywhere in my body. If it's, you know, food or music or, or sex or whatever it is, it's like, Oh,  yes, like,  I want that. That's it.

Yes. Like I want more.  Um, and if we can feel that. around the person or around the situation or around the fantasy, then that's worth taking more time to figure out what it actually is that I want.  And that's what's making me, you know, happy or shimmering or glittering or playful or whatever it is. Um, but we also need to know how many norms we actually have around ourselves that are hurting people and that is hurting our possibilities to have the relationship qualities that we want. 

Yeah. Finding that, that balance.  Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And the same principle goes with being a traveling therapist, you know, it's like, if you've got this glare, if it's like, God, I want to go to Thailand, I want to live in Thailand. You know, it's like, you've got to pay attention to that. So to tell people all the time that they like to do coaching with me, it's like, what is, what is your dream life?

Like, let's focus on that and how we're going to make that happen. Because we know you can, you can do this job from anywhere, really, for the most part. And it's amazing. So you can have the best of both worlds, you know, yeah.  And then we can, if we, if we take that example, then what is stopping you? Or the client or the person from not taking those steps, probably because it's complicated.

Of course, it's always complicated, but probably because it's also really hard to be outside a comfort zone to that extent, that total move or, you know, changing countries all the time or whatever you want to call it.  And it's not everybody who can  continue to feel comfortable even when it's outside your comfort zone. 

Yeah. Oh, that's a whole nother skill set, isn't it?  Yeah. It is. And it's the same with sex and dating internationally. Because if I don't even know how to interact with somebody in a respectful way, then I might just not even, you know, I don't even dare to go there. Right. Right. Absolutely. So that's a perfect segue into, let's talk about you,  how have you  navigated this?

Like what, what advice can you give somebody that's a world traveler? I know last time we talked to you, we're in a relationship, but you've definitely had some, you know, ups and downs with relationships and dating and trying to navigate traveling the world and taking your kids with you and all of that.

So I'm just curious. Any advice or tips or tricks or anything you could share about your journey? Yes, because I met my partner on a dating app for people who want to travel.  And, it's called Nomad, Nomad Soulmates.  And so it's an app designed for people who want to travel or digital nomads, but that also would like to date.

Um, and  then. Um, you can actually meet people and you can make a list, you know, this country I want to go to, or this here I've been here, or da, da, da, da, da. So it is,  it's like a game changer for people who are traveling in that sense. And, I think I should give advice, you know, inside the app, outside the app, to be very clear with what you actually need and what you actually want. 

Yeah. We always compromise in everything, you know, we always compromise every day with big things and small things. But when it comes to building the dream life  and getting what you're longing for, you need to be able to express it to actually make that path to go there.  Right. Yeah. And, and what a cool way to start in a relationship, knowing you're both nomadic anyway, you know, and having that, cause I've talked to people before, it's like, I just want to go and my partner does not want to go.

And it's just a really hard thing. So being able to start with something like an app or people both have the same desires or even pick the same countries. Like that's amazing. What a, what a great idea.  It is a great idea. She's in Bali right now. Uh, I talked with her the other day, the, uh, the starter of this app, uh, because she's doing a retreat in Bali, uh, in August, I think.

Um, which is also a great idea, of course, to actually reach out to her. I need to bring her on the podcast. That would be really good. Yes. Yeah, I will. Yeah. I will hook you up with her. That'd be awesome. Thanks. Sure.  Um, but I also think that.  If we meet somebody that is clear as well, because I just said that you should be clear and express what you actually want and longing for and what you need. 

We need to be able to listen and respect that other people also know. What they need and what they want. Yeah. Um,  and usually, or, you know, in some settings, dating is like a game we are trying and we blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in my age and my age is like, I'm too old for bullshit age. It can happen anywhere, anyone, but I'm 37 also.

That's a good age.  It's a really good age when you get there. Um, I usually also think that it's not everything that I need to take personally.  I don't need to take it personal when a person I'm figuring out if we want to date or not is, you know, telling me with the clear words or expressing like, no, I want this, I wouldn't, I want to be able to travel like this.

I want to be there for seven months and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,  because that's an opportunity for me to continue to be clear. In how I need to express myself as well. Yes,  absolutely. Yeah, because it doesn't need to be a game, you know, we don't need to play these rules. I'm really bad at them anyway, but it's also,  yeah, I don't, you know, I don't get it.

And also every culture and every society have different rules, different games.  So interesting. Oh my gosh. You could probably write a book about that. Yeah. And then it's like, how do I even play a game when I don't even understand the rules?  You know, it's not working.  Yeah. It doesn't work. What's, I know this is like putting you on the spot, but can you think of a country that has a really weird dating dynamic that you had, you were like, what the heck is going on here?

I don't know.  I, I, well, you know, I grew up in Sweden, which means that the Swedish people are not so much, um,  They're pretty calm. People call them cold, usually, like from the outside, because they're not so social. They're not maybe, um, you know, walking up to people they don't know to chit chat if they're not really drunk and like, it's more of a distance in, in their way to communicate then than in others. 

But if we would compare it to countries where there are a lot of Muslims, then there is no woman who is going to approach you out to ask you out.  Yes. That's not how it works. It's not gonna work like that. No. And if you are. And if you grew up in that type of society where there are very fixed positions between women and men, then that means that there are very different possibilities for you as a man and a woman on how you're actually going to date or find each other.

Um, and then that's a totally different context or, or, you know, field on how you meet someone. And is it possible to meet someone or do you actually need to meet, you know, between the families or with recommendations or, you know, then it's a totally different story. Um, and it's also totally different between the Muslim countries.

So, it's not one setting that is totally different between the different countries that you're in.  Wow. That's so interesting.  Yeah. Or like in, uh, in India, for example, I'm not sure if it's the whole India, but, but I have a friend that has been together with his girlfriend now for three years, I think.  And they are waiting to have sex until they are married.

Um, and maybe that's not what they wished for because they are, I don't know, 34 and 36 or, or something like this. Um, but since this is the culture and this is what is expected of them, then this is how they're going to do. That's what they're going to do. So if you would date a person that has this background, where you're supposed to wait with sex until you are married, no matter which country, religion, or culture,  and you would meet somebody that is the opposite, that thinks that, you know, sex is for me, I'm supposed to try it, I'm supposed to have fun, now that's a really hard, you know, way for persons to get compatible, compatible in this area. 

Because that's very far from each other. And there are ideas then around what is normal, what is okay. And if this is even a partner then that I can choose, maybe it's a no. Like it's a clear no for many people probably. Right. Absolutely.  Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah. And then I think about Americans and they're, you know, not supposed to have sex till marriage, Christian Americans, but, you know, teenagers are not following that rule, but I know what these other countries it's like super serious and you have to, you have to abide by that cultural standard.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.  So there's a lot of differences in and when we don't know because we're not, you know, we don't understand all of these things when we're traveling unless we actually sit down and try to figure it out. Right. But There is also very different expectations on what is, you know, how do we define a man and how do we define a woman and what kind of qualities should a man have or a woman because she is supposed to be the mother of my child or, you know, there's a lot of ideas that also might be a little tricky to understand.

Uh, when we're not really in that setting.  Yeah. When they're from another country and they, yeah, they definitely somebody that might like to believe in a traditionalist, like a woman's role doesn't work, you know, that sort of thing. And, you know, meeting  and not really understanding that it's culturally ingrained in this person to think that way.

Yeah. And it might be hard if the woman's like super fierce and independent and like, no way, you know. Yeah. That's a tough, tough match. Yeah. And usually,  or my idea from the beginning, or, you know, earlier, I was like, okay, but they probably just don't date. And then it's, you know, not a problem.  But we are also usually attracted to something we cannot have. 

Or that is dangerous or wrong, or, you know, out of the question, then that's attention and interesting as well, at some point. That's what I was just thinking. It's like, of course, you'd be attracted to that person  who's the exact opposite of what you're looking for in your life. Yeah. I mean, don't we all do that in ways? 

Yeah,  like in a lot of ways. Yeah. So then, and then it's not impossible that it could be a total mismatch for two people, even though there is an attraction or there is an interest. And you just, you know, when you're talking, you're just like,  What? I don't understand. It's like, I don't understand this person at all.

And it's like, no, maybe you don't step in, you step in and you explain the cultural differences and the sexual differences and you try to help them negotiate because they probably are super attracted to each other. Probably love. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It could also be how we are solving conflicts.  I know.

Right. It is. Right. Because that's also a thing. Um, like in South America, for example, or in Argentina, maybe, uh, Brazil also, uh, didn't travel so much to the other countries, but there  it's, it's, you know, you raise your voice. You talk, you tell,  you, you know, you discuss, you, yeah, because that means that I'm careful for you and I'm showing you and I'm telling you, but  if you would do that in Sweden, then people would just, you know, leave the room and go and hide because we don't raise our voice like that.

Super aggressive. Right. Right. Yeah.  And that's also a difference that could be, you know, connecting with the culture or country, but also which generation are we in? You know, what is normal when I grew up or when my partner grew up or this person grew up and how did this change depending on the influence that we have in those years.

So it's, it's cultural in one way, but it's also time wise, like generational. And it's also, you know, who am I as a person? What kind of energy do I have or who, who am I? And all of these things.  Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's so interesting.  So what tips would you have for somebody that's maybe nomadic?

Traveling around and wanting to meet a partner, like, do you have any  tips or tricks that they could follow to help them, you know, meet a good partner and, and still like to navigate this nomadic thing with them, with a potential partner or a new partner?  Well, one question that I think is crucial to figure out is,  you know, why do you travel?

Like, do you travel to find your happy place?  Or do you travel because you love the, you know, the adrenaline, the new things, da, da, da, da, da, da, and all of the experiences or are you looking for your dream partner? Or like what, what, why are you traveling? Because if I'm traveling because I want to find my happy place, then I'm traveling with one mission and I want to settle down somewhere.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And then maybe I should date somebody in that place.  Because that person would probably want to stay there then. Yeah. Probably. Maybe.  Maybe. Right. Yeah.  But if I'm traveling because I want to continue to travel and find many happy places or bring my partner to all these amazing journeys,  then maybe I need to actually say that this is what I would like.

Because if I meet somebody that was just. Looking for their dream partner and then wanting to settle down and I love this person but I want to continue to travel  then maybe we actually need to talk about that. Like should we settle down or not and what does settling down mean  when I'm this crazy traveler.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. No settling.  Yeah. Absolutely. That's a conversation I think you should maybe figure out in the beginning when you're meeting somebody. Because I think that's a conversation  that we need to keep alive all the time, depending on what we're doing or where we are. And even for ourselves, like asking that self, that of ourselves, so we truly know who we are before we enter into a relationship, so we can have.

The right boundaries are like you said, you know, meet somebody and understand it might not be a perfect fit and it's okay. And let's just move on, but being able to be authentic to what it is you want. And also knowing that it might change, like, yeah, I'm cool with it now, but I don't know, 10 years from now, I might be tired and want to just settle down somewhere.

Yeah. And whatever that means. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's important to remember that we are changing all the time. With all of our experiences, we are changing. We are developing. We, it's, you know, that's what it is.  But then we should always keep our conversations alive about all the things that matter. Because it's not, it's not a checklist, like she said she wanted kids and a house, but no dog, you know, you said this five years ago, it's like, yeah, but now I want a dog.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like,  Nope. You said, Nope. Sorry.  Needs to be flexible, right? Yeah. Especially with this lifestyle, just super flexible. And like you said, negotiating all the time and,  you know, just being true and honest and, uh, with your partner and yourself about what's working, what's not working. Yeah. Yeah.

And when we. When we can put these, um, you know, when we're clear from the beginning, like, this is what I'm longing for. This is what I need. And like, these are places I want to go to. Or like, no, I cannot, you know, I can, I don't want to live in that country. It's not for me. Like, I'm happy that you like it, but I'm not going to live there.

Then I have to choose something else. Um, it also kind of pinpoints  Then what is the relationship?  Because if we're, if we're dating very traditionally and we meet somebody and we're supposed to buy a dog and a car and, uh, you know, kids and a house and blah, blah, blah, blah, then that is a kind of a frame that our relationship is bouncing inside.

And that frame could hold us in these positions for. You know, a pretty long time if we want,  but if we don't have that, then we need to be able to stay connected anyway, and to choose each other all the time.  Yes. Yeah.  Amazing. Such good advice. Really? Yeah. And now it sounded really complicated, but I think it is.

Relationships are complicated.  Yeah. It's complicated. Yeah. And when you throw this nomadic stuff into it, it just.  Escalates and new cultures and countries and, you know, all of that, and I think we touched on this last time, which is even traveling with a partner, different traveling styles. And, you know, are you a good pack?

Are you a bad pack? Are you organized? Disorganized? Like, all of that stuff is  exemplified, I guess, or I don't know the right word, but it's just like.  Even more important that stuff because it's stressful travel can be stressful. So you have to really  have that stuff down, you know, and understand that about yourself.

But we still like today's moving day for us. It's still stressful. There's always like,  I'm ready to go. What are you doing? Why do you have an appointment today? You know, all of this stuff. So it's a constant, you know. Struggle for real. Yeah. But we made it work, luckily. Yeah. Yeah. And it's dynamic. It's like we're two but we're still one. 

Exactly. And I'm here and you're there, but we are supposed to. And now it's, you know, it's a polarity play in that as well. It is like, you can do your things in your way. I will do things my way. Mm-Hmm. , I can help you out, but I don't wanna be, you know, I don't wanna deal with that.  Yeah. Luggage that I cannot, you know, I cannot figure it out.

So it's a balanced thing and it's, you can look at all of these situations as examples on what can I learn from this?  Exactly. Like, what can I learn about myself?  Or what can I learn about what I need  or what can I do better? Can I, can I get more organized? Maybe I should, you know, like that kind of thing.

Yeah. Or like, why am I stressed?  You know, what is the idea? Am I stressed because somebody might think I'm a bad person? Mm hmm. Yes. Or, you know, what is the stress really about?  And  then again, we can think about it. Like what is actually going on in this situation and why am I so, you know, overwhelmed by it today? 

I like it. Yeah. What is it? You know? Yeah. And then when we can express that to our partner like, you know, I'm, I'm really stressed because it's moving day and I hate being late because I really hate when people need to wait for me because I feel unprofessional, I feel stupid and I'm afraid that they don't think I value their time. 

I don't like that.  Yes. Yeah. And then when you can connect on that level, everybody understands each other so much better. It's like, Oh, I get it. You can come at it from an empathetic place instead of a,  you always do this or yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah. That's not helping. We ended up there. It's not helping.

Everybody does, but it's not helping. And that's a good example because in Sweden, one of the things is like you are on time.  Like, you don't waste anybody's time. That's like, you don't do it. Uh, which is why I can get stressed sometimes because I'm like, no, we should be there. We need to be there early. And then when I express it like this  and my partner or my kids are like,  but this is Thailand.

Yeah. Yeah.  Everybody's 20 minutes late. It doesn't work. Yeah. Like, it doesn't work like that. Or in Spain, everybody's like. Yeah. That's not a thing. Yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, right. That's my idea. That's what I think is normal. Doesn't mean anybody else here needs to, you know, okay. Right. Then I can sit with that.

I like it.  Yeah. Right. Okay. I gotta, I gotta realign ships a little bit. Yeah.  Yeah. And realize that it was me. It was my stress. It wasn't theirs. It was mine. Nobody cares. And I made it a big thing. And then, okay. Right. Then I can leave it. Absolutely. Drop the stress around.  I love that. Yes. Thank you. So I'm sure people listening are going to be like, Oh my gosh, I want to talk to her.

I want to work with her. So how do people get connected with you if they want to learn, learn from you?  It's easy. I think, well, I have an Instagram. That is easy to catch and I'm not so good at updating it, but it's on my list to actually be good at it. So, you know, I will be good at it  any second.

I'll be good at it. Otherwise, you can find me on Facebook or LinkedIn.  And just under your name, Anna Linde. Yeah. Okay. There should be. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming back a second time. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.  You're welcome. 

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